We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Advice on what to bid on 'offers over £190k' + pics!
Options
Comments
-
Give us a quick run down on how you've deduced I'm in negative equity.
Actually, dont bother. A quick read through your post history makes it clear your one of these house price obsessives who accuses anyone who doesnt agree with them as being akin neg equity or a buy to letter.
Just had a quick butchers's hook at a few of your previous posts and it appears you bought a flat in London in late-2010. No wonder you're getting all huffy about the way the market is going!:eek:
While coming on here and getting all toys-out-of-the-prammy might reaffirm your delusion and give you momentary hope that the market isn't going the way it is, the harsh reality is that it won't help you with your predicament. You'd be much better advised concentrating on taking appropriate steps to ensure the security of your finances. For example, ensure you are bound into a good long-term fixed rate while you still have (hopefully) enough equity in your flat to enable you to do so. Maybe set some money aside to allow you to comfortably meet the increased payments when you move (assuming you haven't already) onto the SVR, allowing for the possibility that the SVR might be a few points above its current value by the time you find yourself on it. Take out insurance (assuming you don't have it already) to protect your income etc.
Anyway, I wish you good luck - don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
0 -
WibbleSnarf wrote: »Eh? How about *you* get something straight? The RightMove index is a monthly average of asking prices according to the biggest property listings website in the country. The Nationwide index is a monthly average of selling prices according to a lender which has a third of the mortgage market. The reason they bear little resemblance is that vendors are asking for, on average, more than 35% more than houses are selling for.
Oh dear.... Another frustrated HPC-er that hasn't a clue what they're talking about.
Rightmove is an average of asking prices, true enough.
But Halifax and Nationwide are not an average of selling prices. They are measuring an entirely different thing to Rightmove, namely, the sales price of a fictional "typical" house.
There are two indices which do measure an average sales price... Acadametrics and ONS both measure an average of actual selling prices, but both those indices are in the low 200K range, and track in a range of around 5% to 10% lower than Rightmove.
There is also the Hometrack report, which notes the average % below asking prices that are achieved by vendors (currently around 8% discount).
So how about *you* get your facts right before spouting off dangerous misinformation on a public forum.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
WibbleSnarf wrote: »The fact that you can't tell me *how* I'm wrong
I can tell you *how* you're wrong.
You have no clue about the differences in methodology used in the indices you are comparing.
Rightmove is an "average" of asking prices.
Nationwide and Halifax are not an "average" of sold prices.
Or as Nationwide puts it....."The mix-adjusted price represents the price for an average or ‘typical’ house. This should not be confused with the average price of all houses.
Nationwide specifically warn against making the very mistake you and your HPC chums have been making for the last few years with the "delusion index", which as it turns out is only useful for measuring the delusion of it's creators and advocates.....;)
Anyway, back to what Nationwide have to say about why you can't compare the two....."The latter is usually higher because even though there are fewer more expensive houses sold, their price is such that they bias the simple average to be greater than the price of the typical house."
So an "average" price will be different to a "typical" price, because they are measuring two completely different things.
Hope that clears up *why* you're wrong.;)
Anyway, some further reading from Nationwide.
Calculating the price of a typical house
The price of a property will depend on the characteristics of the property. These characteristics could include physical properties of the house, like its design, but other aspects such as the type of neighbourhood the house is located in will also contribute to the price someone is willing to pay. Using mortgage data, the Nationwide house price system can relate all the observed combinations of these factors and relate them to the price of which the house was sold for.
From this, the model can estimate how much on average a house would cost given a set values for these characteristics, in particular a set of characteristics that describes the ‘typical’ house. This typical house does not physically exist,
http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/Nationwide_HPI_Methodology.pdf
And from Halifax.....
The indices calculated are 'standardised' and represent the price of a typically transacted house.
In summary, prices are disaggregated into their constituent parts using a commonly used statistical technique called multivariate regression analysis.! This allows values to be attributed to the various qualitative characteristics (type of property, region, etc.) and quantitative characteristics (age of property, number of habitable rooms, garages, bathrooms, etc.) of a property.
As a result, the technique allows us to track the value of a 'typical' house over time
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media1/economic_insight/halifax_house_price_index_page.asp“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
WibbleSnarf wrote: »Just had a quick butchers's hook at a few of your previous posts and it appears you bought a flat in London in late-2010. No wonder you're getting all huffy about the way the market is going!:eek:
While coming on here and getting all toys-out-of-the-prammy might reaffirm your delusion and give you momentary hope that the market isn't going the way it is, the harsh reality is that it won't help you with your predicament. You'd be much better advised concentrating on taking appropriate steps to ensure the security of your finances. For example, ensure you are bound into a good long-term fixed rate while you still have (hopefully) enough equity in your flat to enable you to do so. Maybe set some money aside to allow you to comfortably meet the increased payments when you move (assuming you haven't already) onto the SVR, allowing for the possibility that the SVR might be a few points above its current value by the time you find yourself on it. Take out insurance (assuming you don't have it already) to protect your income etc.
Anyway, I wish you good luck - don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
The difference between you and me here is confidence. I'm confident in the choices I made, and I'm confident I'm prepared to weather myself against any realistic set back the market can throw at me. Thats why I don't make post after post screaming at people to 'buy buy buy!' like some on here - Whatever will be, will be. You on the other hand seem obsessed with getting your viewpoint out there and cry like a tart when people wont agree with you. I bought my place for me to live in - whether it was the right decision we will have to see, but I'm confident it was and I don't feel the need to convince myself I made the right choice by railing people into agreeing with me.
If you're so confident on your prophecies why don't you just sit back, watch them come to fruition, and bag yourself a bargain house when the prices crash? Wailing at people on here about how right you are won't make it any more or less likely to happen you know!0 -
[FONT="]Lads I think we should call a truce, none of us can influence the direction of house prices so there's no point bickering over it. Furthermore as a gesture of goodwill to wee Hamish and Sinbad the sailor I'm sending you this link to help you out of your possible future predicament.[/FONT]
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/BuyingAndSellingYourHome/Mortgagesandrepossessions/DG_174005
Good luck and god bless0 -
demontfort wrote: »[FONT="]Lads I think we should call a truce, none of us can influence the direction of house prices so there's no point bickering over it. Furthermore as a gesture of goodwill to wee Hamish and Sinbad the sailor I'm sending you this link to help you out of your possible future predicament.[/FONT]
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/BuyingAndSellingYourHome/Mortgagesandrepossessions/DG_174005
Good luck and god bless
yep. just buy a house you love, for as fair a price as you can manage and just enjoy it :money:0 -
Thanks demonfort, in return please accept this link which I feel would help someone like you or wibblesnarf get by a bit easier:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/BeginnersGuideToBenefits/DG_40162660 -
demontfort wrote: »Lads I think we should call a truce, none of us can influence the direction of house prices so there's no point bickering over it.
Translation: I can't win this argument so will run away now.Furthermore as a gesture of goodwill to wee Hamish and Sinbad the sailor I'm sending you this link to help you out of your possible future predicament
Very nice of you old chap.....
And in the spirit of goodwill, I'll include some information that you'll no doubt be needing to help you out of your future predicament.
Can pensioners get help with rent?
If a customer or their partner are responsible for paying rent for the place where they live, they may get help with the cost through Housing Benefit. The Pension Service can help them to apply for Housing Benefit at the same time as they apply for Pension Credit.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pc-faq.pdf“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
whilst we may not agree about house prices I'm glad to see you both have a sense of humour.0
-
demontfort wrote: »whilst we may not agree about house prices
There's not really much to agree or disagree about.
Prices are where they are, and they're not really moving. Getting worked up about a percent here or there is completely pointless.
Which is probably why every year that passes, the latest crop of bear cubs make ever more astonishing claims about the "50% off by xyz date" being just around the corner, not realising that we've all seen hundreds of posters making thousands of claims about why it was supposed to happen (and didn't) over the last few years.
Just go visit the housepricecrash website's 'anecdotals' or 'about hpc' boards as that's where the mods hide the "we've given up and bought" threads.
You'll find hundreds of crashaholics that got sucked in to the hype, then waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited some more before finally giving up in disgust and buying anyway.
Usually at a higher price than when they joined hpc. And having wasted tens of thousands in rent, and missed out on years of cheap mortgages in the meantime.
Then remember that at some point, they were all as messianic about preaching the house price crash message across the internet as you current crashaholic newbies are.....
And we'll try to remember that you're probably not all evil doomers, you're just a bit misguided..... And when you give in eventually and buy, just like they did, we'll try not to feel too smug about it.
I'm glad to see you both have a sense of humour.
Nowt wrong with a bit of friendly banter....:)“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.7K Spending & Discounts
- 244.2K Work, Benefits & Business
- 599.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177K Life & Family
- 257.6K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards