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digitaltoast wrote: ».
http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/demand24.htm
At mid-day, the time of maximum sun, the load is around 50gigawatts. At 6pm, the load is around 53gigawatts.
Of which not one single solitary watt will be provided by solar PV.
True ish (think I still get a few watts then), but how about. If we used Dinorwig to take that elect generated at lunch time to pump all the water up them big tubes, come teatime we could just open those big old gates at exactly the time when all the welsh chaps come home for there cup of tea. Bingo green tea!!!digitaltoast wrote: ».
Can you explain why, if it's so good, it needs to be subsidised to the tune of ... what, 8* more than standard generation?
As I see it the government don't have the money to invest in what's required to meet there green energy quotas, so they are borrowing the money from the public and paying them back more money later. Labour started this rolling, Conservatives have concurred.digitaltoast wrote: ».
Against micro-PV, there's George Monbiot, countless failed studies, the highly acclaimed book "Without Hot Air" and hence physics mathematics and economics,, the experience of my father and his first in engineering from Imperial College and the experience of the German government who have basically given up on the hugely expensive failed experiment.
That's a relief. That means we can all just feel comfortable about burning fossil fuels like they are going out of fashion again until there is no more left, and then return to the dark ages again.
That's something to look forward to...Follow the progress of 7 domestic arrays at :- http://www.uksolarcasestudy.co.uk/0 -
Sharp is employing 1100 staff in Wrexham
I am hoping to start a production line, and employ lots of people making a copy of this wonderful device a friend of mine found in the USA.
It consisted of a beautifully engineered stainless steel box. On the outside it had lever marked On and Off.
When you pressed the lever down to the 'On' position there was a humming sound, the lid slowly rose and a mechanical arm appeared and pulled the lever up to the 'Off' position, the hand withdrew and the lid slammed shut.
That is all it did, and it was named 'The Nothing Box'!
My great idea was to have the lid covered with solar panels so it would be 'Green'. I have not yet managed to get a Government subsidy, so sadly no people will be employed on this worthwhile project.0 -
I am hoping to start a production line, and employ lots of people making a copy of this wonderful device a friend of mine found in the USA.
It consisted of a beautifully engineered stainless steel box. On the outside it had lever marked On and Off.
When you pressed the lever down to the 'On' position there was a humming sound, the lid slowly rose and a mechanical arm appeared and pulled the lever up to the 'Off' position, the hand withdrew and the lid slammed shut.
That is all it did, and it was named 'The Nothing Box'!
My great idea was to have the lid covered with solar panels so it would be 'Green'. I have not yet managed to get a Government subsidy, so sadly no people will be employed on this worthwhile project.
Watch out for the budget - you may be rewarded for your enterprise :rotfl:Target of wind & watertight by Sept 20110 -
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True ish (think I still get a few watts then), but how about. If we used Dinorwig to take that elect generated at lunch time to pump all the water up them big tubes, come teatime we could just open those big old gates at exactly the time when all the welsh chaps come home for there cup of tea. Bingo green tea!!!
It was built primarily for grid frequency support in the event of a loss of a major generator – specifically Sizewell B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station"Although it uses more electricity to pump the water back than it generates on the way down, pumping is generally done at periods of low demand, when the energy is cheaper to consume."
Bang goes that idea. Next?As I see it the government don't have the money to invest in what's required to meet there green energy quotas, so they are borrowing the money from the public and paying them back more money later.
"Paying them back more money later"? What does that even mean?
Micro PV and FiT are a one-way money-pit. Person with small house A pays large company B to install and run solar on large house C.
What do you think happens at the end of 25 years?Labour started this rolling, Conservatives have concurred.That's a relief. That means we can all just feel comfortable about burning fossil fuels like they are going out of fashion again until there is no more left, and then return to the dark ages again.
Can you tell me how all of this PV will make any difference to the amount of fossil fuels burned? How many few power stations will be needed at 5pm on a winter's evening? Answer: none.
This has NOTHING to do with "being green", and you know full well it doesn't. And if you don't know that, then you're poorly educated on the matter.
Incidentally, looking at your Dinorwig analogy again, it took 1 million tons of concrete, 200,000 tons of cement and 4,500 tons of steel to built. Ultra-green, eh?0 -
You don't know:
1. Inflation rates over the next 25 years.
2. Fuel inflation rates over the next 25 years
3. Interest rates over the next 25 years.
4. what you will spend on repairs over the next 25 years - including to roof.
5. Possible Government intervention to modify payment of FITs over the next 25 years. If Euroland can cut subsidies to for existing installations - so can UK.
Also as an accountant you will be familiar with annuities - a far better way to look at an 'investment' in solar PV panels.
This helps illustrate why I see "rent-a-roof" as beneficial for me. I don't currently have the spare cash which I am prepared to put out of reach for at least 10 years on a gamble. The odds may well be good, but I don't wish to make that commitment at my current stage in my life.
In addition I see some other risks associated with Solar PV systems- Unexpected maintenance requirements
- Unexpected downturn in output (eg change in weather patterns. Volcano anyone?)
- development locally causing a shadow
For me, these risks put me off the investment myself, yet I recognised that current FiTs make it viable for a 3rd party to take that gamble and provide me a system at virtually nil cost.
I considered that current FiTs will almost certainly reduce with time, and may well reduce to a point that the "free" systems are no longer viable for companies to offer.
I also considered that there is only one realistic direction that electricity prices will move in - and therefore even if I only achieve £100 saving in the first year, that could well equate to much more in 10 years time. Just look at petrol prices at the moment for an example.
Finally energy consumption in homes is likely to reduce due to energy efficiency. Whilst this will go part way to balance out price increases, the higher proportion of my consumption I can generate, the happier I will be. I don't care about any surplus consumption - it's not a benefit to me (other than for my eco-credentials). So if in 10 years I am generating enough to cover my lower background consumption and still allow me to boil an efficient kettle without importing from the grid then even better.
I invested a very small sum into my system and expect to return more than 5 times that amount in energy savings in the first 10 years. That's not a bad return on my investment - and I accept that the FiTs should generate decent returns for the people taking the bigger risk financing my system.
I fully understand that this is my specific case, and doesn't fit for everyone, but I hope it gives some of the reasons why "rent-a-roof" can work for some people.
Hi zeupater - it's OK because I've limited my risk (and potential benefits) therefore even if I make a mere £100 per year in savings (at today's prices) that's fine. I'm thoroughly enjoying making the most of my system and seeing what I generate. To be honest I've wasted so much money on toys/hobbies (cars, motorbikes, camping equipment etc) in the past that this one is already a winner
I'm hoping to use some of the money I haven't invested in the PV system to install a device like the Cool Power Emma unit which should increase the returns significantly by allowing my to store some of my surplus energy generation of hot water - something my kids can use loads of showering each evening.
My biggest obstacle at the moment is that whilst I can read the generation meter to find out my generation, I haven't got a way of tracking when I export and when I import. This isn't a priority for the system installers as they meter what they need, but for me to benefit most from the system it is important. This is also something that people need to consider.0 -
My biggest obstacle at the moment is that whilst I can read the generation meter to find out my generation, I haven't got a way of tracking when I export and when I import. This isn't a priority for the system installers as they meter what they need, but for me to benefit most from the system it is important. This is also something that people need to consider.
Try this - if you don't mind forking out a bit extra - it lets you know when you're generating but not using by glowing yellow.
http://www.diykyoto.com/uk/wattson/aboutTarget of wind & watertight by Sept 20110 -
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Sarcasm - the lowest from of wit ..... most people on the forum manage to convey their opinions without being rude ...Target of wind & watertight by Sept 20110
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I cant agree with most of what you've put here. There's no doubt that its not the most efficient piece of tech in the world as we dont live in a country near the equator where solar radiation is much higher but saying its worthless isnt true either as its still generating electricity from nothing.
Del
It's worthless in the sense that if you have £x of resources with which you want to generate electricity, there are many more methods which generate more (much more, typically 15 or 16 times more) for that £x than solar.0
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