18866/Finarea Unnotified Price Rise Scam

quickquid · 22 September 2005 at 8:31AM

I have been with 18866 since the days they charged per minute for their calls. The last charge per minute dropped to 1p before they changed to 0p per minute with a connection fee. There have been problems with billing charges - you can possible pick up some of the old threads that are on this site - but, to my knowledge people who had been overcharged were always refunded. Is anybody presently in the situation where they have been overcharged and have not been given a refund?

NonGeographicalMan · 22 September 2005 at 1:30PM

bunking_off wrote:

They meet their regulatory obligations of tariff publication via having the website : they have no obligation to mail everyone individually, although it would be good customer service to do so.

On the issue of lack of ADR, however, they patently are in regulatory breach and Ofcom should be pursuing that.

Their terms & conditions saying they can just change the price on their website and not have to tell you in a free email that actually costs them nothing to send and so these are blatantly "unfair contract terms". I shall be asking Ofcom to give a ruling on Finarea's currently unfair contract terms.

It is the principle of them being able to make any price changes (in this case a 50% one whatever the absolute call rate may be) without sending out a zero cost email to notify the fact that concerns me, and also the fact that they have a call price announcement based only on pence per minute when their only actual charge these days for uk fixed line calls is a connection charge. This is another attempt to deceive. The thing is I always trusted Finarea implicity with things like my credit card number, especially bearing in mind that they operate from overseas, but now I don't trust them at all. That is a huge change in my perception of the company.

I have just seen an advert in the newspapers for a board member of the Advertising Standards Authority. A pre-requisite of that job is that you must have absolutely no connection with the direct marketing or advertising industries. So why is it that government regulations do not make similar stipulations about the directors of Ofcom who actually seem to go out of their way not to ever close a corrupt telecoms company down or impose big fines upon them? Is it because most of these Ofcom directors (especially the executive ones who are employees) were previously working at senior level in these very same telecoms companies?

I note these various unreasoned requests to claim 18866 are still the good guys. But given the unhealthily close business relationship between Martin Lewis, who runs this forum, and Finarea I would suspect that all of these posts are from people with a business connection with Finarea. I note there have been no such posts defending Finarea over in the SayNoto0870 discussion forum.

NonGeographicalMan · 22 September 2005 at 1:36PM

bunking_off wrote:

Either way, as others have said, this hardly justifies the word "scam".

Of course increasing the price a customer pays for an ongoing service without telling them beforehand is a scam.

Would you put up with such behaviour at a restaurant in between placing an order for a meal and receiving a bill. Or would you put up with it from your gas or electricity company or even from British Telecom?

The fact that it is only a few pence per call is neither here nor there. The fact is that Finarea have proven they are no longer trustworthy and if they have pulled this kind of stunt once then why not do it again. Next time why not accidentally make a charge of £50 on my credit card and see if I notice?

egbe · 22 September 2005 at 1:42PM

NonGeographicalMan wrote:

I note these various unreasoned requests to claim 18866 are still the good guys. But given the unhealthily close business relationship between Martin Lewis, who runs this forum, and Finarea I would suspect that all of these posts are from people with a business connection with Finarea. I note there have been no such posts defending Finarea over in the SayNoto0870 discussion forum.

This assertion is both ludicrous and potentially libellous. What evidence do you have that Martin Lewis has shares or other interests in a Dutch/Swiss company? Or anybody else here?

You had a point when you suggested that you could be up to £2 a month worse off but now you have gone right over the top.

Given the extent of your complaints, and continuous rants on SayNo... against the company, I rather doubt that you are actually a customer. If you are, I urge you to give it up to help yourself relax.

egbe · 22 September 2005 at 1:44PM

NonGeographicalMan wrote:

... and if they have pulled this kind of stunt once then why not do it again. Next time why not accidentally make a charge of £50 on my credit card and see if I notice?

Stick to facts, not paranoid inventions

MSE_Martin · 22 September 2005 at 1:50PM

Dear NonGeographicalman

let me make something absolutely plain. There is no relationship between me and Fineria neither financial or in any other way. In fact i can get paid links to all major providers, the way the comparison services do, yet i choose to link to the cheapest provider as thats what this site is about and thats my ethical stance.

By doing this i forgo the tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds that the comparison sites make annually. There is absolutely no linkage in any way and i find the assertion offensive.

You can read thousands of posts on this forum with happy 18866 users. Though in fact i now plump for 1899 ahead.

If it were about anyone else i would have the post deleted for libel. However I will have it here to ensure no one thinks any different. However may i warn you before posting on my forum such untruths about anyone else - libel is an offence, you may be sued, as may i if you post such, so please be incredibly careful again.

NonGeographicalMan · 22 September 2005 at 2:15PM

MSE_Martin wrote:

Dear NonGeographicalman

let me make something absolutely plain. There is no relationship between me and Fineria neither financial or in any other way. In fact i can get paid links to all major providers, the way the comparison services do, yet i choose to link to the cheapest provider as thats what this site is about and thats my ethical stance.

By doing this i forgo the tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds that the comparison sites make annually. There is absolutely no linkage in any way and i find the assertion offensive.

If it were about anyone else i would have the post deleted for libel. However I will have it here to ensure no one thinks any different.

Dear Martin,

Thank for for clearing this up. It is good to know that your recommendation of various Finarea group companies is purely because they are offering some of the cheapest call rates.

I do hope that my previous post was not in any way libelous. I think it was more in the nature of being speculative as saying that you seemed to be very close to Finarea was not the same thing as saying they actually paid you any money for recommendations. Also given the fact that you have admitted you have a telephone number to speak to people at Finarea whereas none of the rest of us who are customers do not have this privilege it obviously led to specualation about your relationship with them that you have now helpfully clarified.

Nonetheless I do think it would be very helpful if you could use your telephone number and/or email addresses for any contacts you may have with Finarea to suggest that have done their reputation a lot of commercial damage by imposing a secret price rise for 18866 that they failed to notify properly when they could easily have done so at no cost to them.

Previously I was favourably disposed towards Finarea and its various telecoms brands but this is no longer the case and I shall be pursuing complaints with Ofcom about their failure to act against Finarea over their lack of an Alternate Dispute Resolution procedure and also about the fact that contract terms for some Finarea brands regarding notification of pricing changes appear to be unfair and unreasonable.

I would be happy to continue this discussion with you privately if you feel this would be useful however I do have a very strong view that it is unethical to attempt to acquire business on the basis of unsustainable pricing and to then attempt to hide subsequent price rises. At least if Easyjet or Ryanair decide to ramp up their fares their customers will know about it the very next time they purchase a ticket with the airline.

egbe · 22 September 2005 at 2:26PM

Be sure to state your facts correctly.

That you did not receive notification of the increase, or otherwise notice it, does not justify your suggestions of attempted deception, or hidden price rises. The tariffs are published, and this extrapolated part of your complaint is unjustified unless or until the company attempts to wrongly charge, which is not happening.

NonGeographicalMan · 22 September 2005 at 2:31PM

egbe wrote:

Be sure to state your facts correctly.

That you did not receive notification of the increase, or otherwise notice it, does not justify your suggestions of attempted deception, or hidden price rises. The tariffs are published, and this extrapolated part of your complaint is unjustified unless or until the company attempts to wrongly charge, which is not happening.

My complaint is quite justified as if customers do not know what they are actually paying for a product they cannot take a logical decision about whether or not they still wish to continue purchasing it.

I am currently pursuing Finarea's "Unfair Contract Terms" in this regard with Ofcom.

I have no idea why you seem to consider yourself a member of the "Friends of Finarea"?

egbe · 22 September 2005 at 2:40PM

You have two complaints, and are blurring them together.

I will say again, your remarks about poor notification are valid. However, the attempt to smear the company with phrases like attempted deception, secrecy, hidden price rises, or the odd hint that they might suddenly charge you £50 for no reason, are not.

Now, having been rebutted by Martin Lewis for your poorly judged remarks on his integrity, you are attempting it on me.

Stick to fact, not smear. The customers do know what they are paying, as published.

18866/Finarea Unnotified Price Rise Scam

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