How do I prove?

starbright_2 · 3 November 2006 at 10:11AM

DH and I have 10,000 in savings. DH's sister has just been diagnosed with a heart tumor and needs surgery. She is not a British citizen and does not live in the UK. DH and I are going to lend her quite a chunk of our savings to have the operation.

We are currently on tax credits. After we lend SIL the money we will have less than 6,000 in savings and would like to apply for HB as well.

However we are worried that we might get suspected of (don't know the correct term) moving our money away. We have told my BIL our plans and he is worried about getting caught up in our investigation should it come to that and add to his already high stress levels. Can the government investigate them and their accounts abroad?

What's the correct way to go about it? I have her formal diagnosis if that helps.

Miss_Money · 3 November 2006 at 10:36AM

hi first of all let me say how sorry i am for your sil, and its very kind what you are planning to do.
2nd if you move money out of your account for your sil, when you apply for HB they ask for the last few months of your bank acoount statements and they WILL question why youhad so much money and where it went.
Best thing for you to do is seek the help of the CAB as im not sure where you stand or if another better knowledgable MSER can help you.
Good luck

seven-day-weekend · 3 November 2006 at 10:39AM

I think they will say you have deprived yourself of the money in order to get Housing Benefit, (and therefore you will not get HB) but, like someone else has said, I would contact CAB to find out for certain.

Sorry to hear about your relative, I hope they get their treatment one way or another soon.

krisskross · 3 November 2006 at 5:50PM

Why should the British Taxpayer be expected to help pay for surgery for a non British citizen who does not even live in Britain? This is essentially what you want to do. Although I am sure that you want to help, you surely cannot expect benefits to help you do it.

CFC · 4 November 2006 at 4:47AM

Totally agree with KrissKross. In effect you are proposing to manipulate the benefits system to the advantage of your family. It's very kind of you to offer to pay for her operation, but please don't make me pay for it, I have my own financial worries.

sarahlouise210 · 4 November 2006 at 4:58AM

I find the posts a bit harsh ....the OP has £10 000 in savings ..they have saved the money and can surely do what they like with it? If they wanted/needed a new car then they could use the money and then would not have any savings and would be able to claim housing benefit. If they had not have bothered to save at all then they would still be able to claim housing benefit. I am no sure how the "loan " part would be viewed - if you said you were giving them the money for the operation then it might be different. TBH..I think once you told them you did not have the savings any more that would be that - is it anyones busines what you pay for with your own savings???????? I cannot think of many more worthy ways of spending savings han saving a life - you have not created the illness in a way to claim benefits - just become eligible because you no longer will have them. Everyone is encouraged to claim what they are entitled to - that is what yu are doing. You are not asking the rest of us to pay for the operation - YOU are doing that with your savings. Well done and I hope it all turns out ok ...just remember to let housing benefit know when you receive the money back though!!

viktory · 4 November 2006 at 10:59AM

sarahlouise210 wrote:

I find the posts a bit harsh ....the OP has £10 000 in savings ..they have saved the money and can surely do what they like with it? If they wanted/needed a new car then they could use the money and then would not have any savings and would be able to claim housing benefit.

Not actually true. The DWP would consider that they have disposed of income and would base their decision on HB accordingly. If one is claiming benefits and either has savings or comes into money this must be delcared as benefits are suposed to be for the truly needy. Not those that have savings but decide they would rather buy a new car (or make an altruistic offer) rather than pay their own way in life.

What concerns me is that the OP is managing without HB thus far, but fully intends to dispose of income then claim. It is a nice gesture to offer to pay for her SIL's operation but should not do so if it causes her financial hardship. Claiming HB infers such hardship.

I certainly think that the DWP would ask some searching questions and quite frankly would not care where the money had gone but would be concerned that the OP had disposed of it.

krisskross · 4 November 2006 at 11:04AM

sarahlouise210 wrote:

I find the posts a bit harsh ....the OP has £10 000 in savings ..they have saved the money and can surely do what they like with it? If they wanted/needed a new car then they could use the money and then would not have any savings and would be able to claim housing benefit. If they had not have bothered to save at all then they would still be able to claim housing benefit. I am no sure how the "loan " part would be viewed - if you said you were giving them the money for the operation then it might be different. TBH..I think once you told them you did not have the savings any more that would be that - is it anyones busines what you pay for with your own savings???????? I cannot think of many more worthy ways of spending savings han saving a life - you have not created the illness in a way to claim benefits - just become eligible because you no longer will have them. Everyone is encouraged to claim what they are entitled to - that is what yu are doing. You are not asking the rest of us to pay for the operation - YOU are doing that with your savings. Well done and I hope it all turns out ok ...just remember to let housing benefit know when you receive the money back though!!

Presumably they have managed to save because the government is over generous with tax credits. If they intend to claim benefits to replace the missing savings then of course they are asking the British tax payer to fund this operation. If the money is only to be a loan will they intend to pay back every extra penny received when the loan is returned?

Scarlett1 · 4 November 2006 at 11:30AM

CIS posted this on another thread

For housing benefit/Council tax benefit, the rules state

Quote:
Identifying deprivation

2.302 You will most likely identify potential deprivation of capital when examining a change of circumstances or a repeat claim. For example, when entitlement has been refused because the claimant's capital exceeded £16,000 and a repeat claim is made soon afterwards when capital of less than £16,000 is declared.

P2.303 A claimant should still be regarded as having deprived themself of a capital resource if they have disposed themself of it by way of a gift to a third party. However, they should not be regarded as depriving themself of it if they did it to HB Reg 42(2), CTB Reg 34(2)

* reduce or pay off a debt they owe
* purchase goods or services the Decision Maker considers reasonable, given their circumstances, eg
o payments to reduce/pay off a debt, eg paying a credit card account or mortgage early
o for day to day expenses
o to improve their quality of life, eg buying a new kitchen or car
o for medical treatment
o for home repairs
o for a holiday

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/housingbenefit...ts/ptc_02c.asp

might be of help

needaspirin · 4 November 2006 at 12:45PM

Starbright, as you have less than £16000 savings you are eligible to apply for HB/CTB already. Whether you get it or not depends on your income. Earnings and Tax Credits are taken into account when calculating HB/CTB.
Your £10000 savings would be classed as £16 per week Tariff income. When you reduce savings to £6000 there is no Tariff. HB office could decide that you have deprived yourself of this income and still apply the Tariff.
Why not give them a ring and see if your eligible for HB now and explain your intentions regarding your SIL's operation?
Good Luck

starbright_2 · 4 November 2006 at 3:51PM

Maybe I was kidding myself when I thought I'll only get informative, supportive, non-judgemental advice.

To those of you who did offer this, THANK YOU.

To the others. I don't know why I feel I have to justify myself to you but let me ask you one question. Would you feel the same way if it was your family member who needed this life saving operation?

None of us asked or chose to be in this situation. For us it was never a matter of whether we would lend them the money. There's simply no question about it. How can we turn a blind eye when my husband's sister's life depends on it? How can we turn a blind eye when 2 parents face loosing their daughter, 1 husband faces loosing his wife and 3 darling little children under 10yrs face loosing their mother?

I would also like to clarify that the money we have in savings is money WE EARNED through years of hard work, saving and doing without life's little luxuries. The idea was that we would give it to our 2 children for when they go to university. Our 2 kids even though they are only 15 & 17yrs had no hesitation when we told them of our plans. Even though it meant that the years to come would be much harder for all of us. For this I am so proud of them.

I understand that this is an open forum and that people are free to express their opinions but I also think that before we voice our opinions we should consdier the feelings of others.

That is all I have to say on the matter. I won't be visiting this thread again.

Thanks again to those of you who did offer helpful advice and support. Thank you.

How do I prove?

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