Unenforceability & Template Letters III

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Hi Niddy,

My, my you have been busy since we last touched base!!!!!!!!

It never fails to astonish me how much time and effort you give to helping everyone on this thread.

Well after the phenominal letter you drafted for me, which I am sure has helped loads of people who were in the same situation as me, I received a reply from BOS on the 5th March (copy mailed to you 5th March 2010).

Kindest regards

Dojo Jo Jo

never-in-doubt wrote: »

HBOS mate - no probs in naming and shaming, I have the agreement saved as proof! LOL

Here is the OP's post: #1458

Here is my (extremely funny) reply to them here: #1492

Dear Muppets,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

I write with reference to previous correspondence, and in particular to your letter dated 1st March 2010. Unless I am mistaken, I did ask in my letter dated 22nd January 2010, for you to contact me within 30 days with your intentions to resolve my complaint of which, i'm still awaiting.

I think, before moving to your letter, we should spend a few moments going over my original letter which I felt was self explanitory and quite easy to understand. Briefly, you fabricated a document using details from later accounts and tried to pass this off as an original for an older account. I then advised you that such behaviour was fraud and the only way i'd not take matters further, in fairness, was for you to close the account and write off any balance as a business loss; with the provision you also remove any derogatory data from the CRA's databases.

You failed entirely, shockingly enough, to respond to any of the key points raised and as such, you leave me with no alternative but to seek legal advice about your clear abuse. As for your business practice of concocting documents using cut/paste from other documents, i'll obviously be speaking to the FSA, FOS, OFT, Trading Standards and the ICO to get their opinion on this. However, it may be pertinent to remind you one last time of the OFT's recent guidance regards to this subject; I quote:

The OFT goes on to advise that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

As is evident from dealings to date, to which I do have documentary evidence, you do not have a copy of the alleged original agreement and as such you are disguising the fact that there was ever a signed copy - I have asked you to prove it to me but still, you can't - so why won't you accept the fact you've messed up? The only resolution, acceptable to me is for you to clear the balance, remove the default and confirm this to me in writing. I shall then walk away and no more will be said.

I offer 14 days in which you should accept my proposal, afterwhich no warning will be given prior to formally complaining to the above mentioned governing bodies, as well as local and national press.

Now, after considering the above which I feel is serious enough, let's move to the content of your most recent letter. You begin by confirming that you believe you've already complied with my s.78 request, I quote;

You have previously requested under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a copy of your reconstituted version of the executed agreement. We provided you with a copy in May and June 2009

You then go on to try and convince me that you understand the provisions of s.78 (CCA1974) by quoting all weird and wonderful facts - but please don't bother in future, i'm more than familiar with the inner working of the CCA as you'll find out. So, lets use the last paragraph as a small example, I quote;

Once these documents were issued, we had fulfilled your request. In addition, although not required under Section 78 we also provided a copy of the original signed agreement.

I'll come back to these points in a moment. Moving on, you then go on to state that, I quote;

Preference account is a type of current account which features a debit card, cheque book and overdraft facility in common with other current accounts offered in the market. The Preference Account is clearly not a credit card account as the account features a debit card facility rather than a credit card. The inference you have made as a result of the notation as "Credit card/store card" with credit reference agencies is incorrect.

Can you see your mistake yet? I'll help you out a little, if the Preference Account is not a credit card account then why on earth would you bother responding to a s.78 request because unless i'm mistaken, and I know i'm not, an overdraft does not conform to the CCA1974 and is therefore exempt from s.78 in its entirety. You did know this, didn't you?

You then have the cheek to state that my 'inference made as a result of the notation as "Credit card/store card" with credit reference agencies is incorrect' but I think you'll appreciate it is not me who is wrong, is it?

You then go on to dig a deeper hole when you state, I quote;

We are not stating that the nature of the agreement has changed in any way since the inception of the account. The account does feature a running account credit facility (an overdraft is an example of such a facility)

I'm confused, is it a running account or is it not a running account? I think you'll find it is a running account and nothing like an overdraft which, as explained above, is absolutely nothing to do with the CCA and therefore is not a running account in any shape or form.

You then go on and totally contradict yourself when you state, I quote;

however the account uses the "Credit card/store card" notation with credit reference agencies as there are only a set number of categories into which an account can be classified. Unlike most other current accounts, Preference Account requires a minimum payment to be made each month.

If it requires a minimum payment each month and you reckon you have an agreement then trust me, there is no question of a doubt that this account is regulated under the CCA1974 under the heading of "Running Account". Therefore my valid and lawful s.78 request does remain outstanding, you are in default and this account is unenforceable.

I could spend hours ripping the finer points of your letter apart, but felt it pertinent to remain professional and to the point. Having said that, I nearly fell off my chair when I got to the end of your letter where you state, I quote;

I am also declining your request to remove any detrimental information held on your credit file in relation to this credit card account. In signing the credit card agreement, you did give your agreement and consent to the processing of your information. It is clear that by signing the agreement, the customer agrees to their data being used as set out. This is also in compliance with the Data Protection Act. Unfortunately, as a credit file is a true reflection of the conduct of an account, I am unable to amend this information.

Please tell me you are not referring to the account as being a "credit card account", surely not? Maybe it's time to consider having any correspondence you write checked by a senior colleague because you've actually gone back on yourself in a full 360 degree circle from vehemently denying it was a credit card account, to actually confirming that it is indeed a credit card, running account.

It is a good job I am extremely clued up in this area otherwise you'd confuse the life out of people. I strongly suggest before you respond to me this time, you seek approval from your line manager as further blatant ignorance will not be tolerated. My time is valuable and I do not wish to spend any longer communicating with you, certainly not when you cannot even compose a basic letter properly. You may now consider this my final response and I look forward with anticipation, your response which I do expect within the next 14 days - if you cannot meet that deadline then write and tell me, ignoring me would be a fatal mistake as my threats above will then become real with no further advance warning.

I do expect you to agree to my request to close the account, remove all data from the CRA's and confirm this to me. That should take approximately one day to action and confirm. Bear in mind I will not take any threats lightly and they will be averred and unlawful and vexatious with a counter-claim forthcoming.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

Dojo_Jo_Jo wrote: »

Oh my God, what a stonker!!!!! Can't WAIT to take it to the Post Office tomorrow!

Just one thing, where you quoted HBOS in your draft :

You have previously requested under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a copy of your reconstituted version of the executed agreement. We provided you with a copy in May and June 2009

I don't know what they are talking about here, have I been confused with someone else? I did not find your thread and start the process until Nov 09, so how an earth do they reckon they have sent a copy of my CCA in May & June?

Are you happy for me to insert words to that effect. I don't want to touch your masterpiece without permission!!!!!

Cheers

Can you see your mistake yet? I'll help you out a little, if the Preference Account is not a credit card account then why on earth would you bother responding to a s.78 request because unless i'm mistaken, and I know i'm not, an overdraft does not conform to the CCA1974 and is therefore exempt from s.78 in its entirety. You did know this, didn't you? Also, i'd like to point out i've never requested a CCA from you prior to the original one in November so your point about me requesting them in May & June 2009 is somewhat puzzling?