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  • defaultworry
    defaultworry Posts: 51 Forumite
    Update:

    CreditExpert replied to an email I sent to them highlighting the issue. They said the following:

    In view of your comments about Santander, I am writing to them for you, as I cannot amend your report without their consent. While I investigate your comments, I am adding the following statement to the information you have queried.

    "THE CONSUMER HAS DISPUTED THE ACCURACY OF THIS ENTRY AND WE HAVE THEREFORE ASKED THE PROVIDER TO INVESTIGATE IT. GIVEN THAT THIS DATA IS DISPUTED, PLEASE TAKE CARE IF MAKING AN ASSESSMENT OF ANY KIND THAT MAY INCLUDE THIS DATA."

    Not sure if this is positive or a standard response.
  • mparter
    mparter Posts: 409 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    This is a standard response. Santander may well take ages to respond but I'm guessing they'll respond to say the default stands at which point Experian will pass this on and leave it up to you to do any more about.
  • defaultworry
    defaultworry Posts: 51 Forumite
    mparter wrote: »
    This is a standard response. Santander may well take ages to respond but I'm guessing they'll respond to say the default stands at which point Experian will pass this on and leave it up to you to do any more about.

    Thanks mparter.

    I think if I annoy them enough (they have about 23/24 days to respond to my original letter) they will investigate this and we should get somewhere.

    I'm concerned I have acknowledged the debt though.
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    edited 22 July 2009 at 7:25AM
    defaultworry wrote: »
    Burtons/Santander Cards have served a default on me for £95.

    For such a small amount i'd be looking to pay it - or certainly agree to repayment in exchange for default removal, kinda swapping. Obviously, only if you do indeed owe them.... it could well be I.D fraud or just an almighty mess-up which may be the case being you opened a genuine account not long after....
    defaultworry wrote: »
    My problem with this whole affair is the fact that I cannot remember taking out the Burtons store card. The report said I took it out in 07/2007 and the default was served in 2009. The address on my file for that account is my old address (I moved in 10/2007) so I did not see any statements or the default notice. To complicate matters further, I applied for and obtained a Burtons card one year later (used and paid off) - surely they asked for a previous address when I applied for the card and spotted that I already had a card or had an outstanding debt?

    Ok, being you state you cannot remember this then the best thing to do would be to request CCA - pointless doing a SAR at this stage as its a waste of a tenner when for £1, you'd be better sending CCA request off.

    The benefits of this will ascertain whether you have/had an agreement in the first place.

    A lender can default whenever they see fit, yes ICO guidance does state that they should add a default within 6mths of first late payment and issuance of default warning, default notice and any relevant assignment. However, it could be that they waited 8 months then sold to a DCA who traced you and by the time they actually confirmed it was you, they then added the default for the correct person at the correct adddress. That said, you do need sight of default notice or you can argue for removal due to unlawfulness.

    Being you moved, it is possible that they missed the second application or even worse - they linked the two accounts (old and new one) and defaulted the new account using old account details, easy to confirm - wait for CCA then if unclear do a SAR.
    defaultworry wrote: »
    Something is not adding up though - I'm unsure if I used the card or if I am a victim of fraud. Does it normally take 2 years for them to serve defaults? Surely the person living at my old address returned the mail they were sending (if any)? Surely they spotted that I had an existing card already when I applied for the new one? Do I have to acknowledge a default when I haven't seen one? Sorry about all the questions but I genuinely do not know the answers.

    Not sure if I have any legal recourse or how I can prove that this wasn't me. If they send me something with my signature on it or proof that I used the card I will happily pay it off but that doesn't solve the default problem.

    Any advice?

    You don't have to acknowledge a default but you do have to see one. Best advice is sit tight and wait the 12 days for the CCA. It won't come, pointless hassling them with threats just leave them a couple of weeks then write the follow-up letter. When they send the CCA things will become more clear and until that point, it's pointless second guessing permutations because there could be a host of options available.

    I'd be looking to negotiate payment for removal but wait - don't jump in! We use a letter that pretty much covers every scenario so when you get the CCA post back again and we'll see what can be done. Remember to compare the CCA against prescribed terms - Here.
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    edited 22 July 2009 at 7:27AM
    defaultworry wrote: »
    Thanks mparter.

    I think if I annoy them enough (they have about 23/24 days to respond to my original letter) they will investigate this and we should get somewhere.

    I'm concerned I have acknowledged the debt though.

    Acknowledging the debt would only affect any statute barred process, in the way you describe - you've not admitted anything, you've simply classified the debt as 'possibly yours' - this is unknown for definite until they prove it to you by sending a copy of the CCA.

    They have 12 days to send it, not 20 odd - but personally, I always say leave them a month anyway cos even enforcing compliance only means they remove the default until they send the CCA which is kinda pointless - just give them time to send it you.
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • defaultworry
    defaultworry Posts: 51 Forumite
    First of all - wow! I'm overwhelmed that you have taken the time to read my problem point by point and respond to each. Thank you so much.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    For such a small amount i'd be looking to pay it - or certainly agree to repayment in exchange for default removal, kinda swapping. Obviously, only if you do indeed owe them.... it could well be I.D fraud or just an almighty mess-up which may be the case being you opened a genuine account not long after....

    If I was offered this option I would bite their hands off. Even if this is some kind of fraud or mix up, £95 to remove this blight from my credit report would be a fair exchange in my opinion.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    Ok, being you state you cannot remember this then the best thing to do would be to request CCA - pointless doing a SAR at this stage as its a waste of a tenner when for £1, you'd be better sending CCA request off.

    The benefits of this will ascertain whether you have/had an agreement in the first place.

    My CCA request got sent back because I did not sign it in ink. I'm guessing they have something to compare my signature to - that's why they needed it a hard copy of the signature. I will have to wait another month max.

    I'm unsure what happens next if they provide me with an original agreement.

    Also, What happens if they can't?
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    A lender can default whenever they see fit, yes ICO guidance does state that they should add a default within 6mths of first late payment and issuance of default warning, default notice and any relevant assignment. However, it could be that they waited 8 months then sold to a DCA who traced you and by the time they actually confirmed it was you, they then added the default for the correct person at the correct adddress. That said, you do need sight of default notice or you can argue for removal due to unlawfulness.

    If they had traced me down to my new address I would have seen a default letter and I haven't - this is promising. Thanks for this information.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    Being you moved, it is possible that they missed the second application or even worse - they linked the two accounts (old and new one) and defaulted the new account using old account details, easy to confirm - wait for CCA then if unclear do a SAR.

    I'm a little lost here as I fully paid the new account. I'm guessing that any confusion will not be cleared up until I get the CCA
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    You don't have to acknowledge a default but you do have to see one. Best advice is sit tight and wait the 12 days for the CCA. It won't come, pointless hassling them with threats just leave them a couple of weeks then write the follow-up letter. When they send the CCA things will become more clear and until that point, it's pointless second guessing permutations because there could be a host of options available.

    Thanks for putting my mind at rest. I was really worried I had acknowledged the debt.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    I'd be looking to negotiate payment for removal but wait - don't jump in! We use a letter that pretty much covers every scenario so when you get the CCA post back again and we'll see what can be done. Remember to compare the CCA against prescribed terms - Here.

    I'm at work just now so I'll check out the other thread at lunch time. I'm hoping for the payment for removal angle though :D

    Thanks again for your help.
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    defaultworry wrote: »
    If I was offered this option I would bite their hands off. Even if this is some kind of fraud or mix up, £95 to remove this blight from my credit report would be a fair exchange in my opinion.

    Hiya

    Try sending this - not yet, but this is the kind of letter you need to be sending. If they agree then they will remove the default. If they say they won't then it helps you should you try enforcing removal by county court.

    Don't do anything yet though, don't know enough about this to offer exact advice. The letter you'd send is below though....



    Dear XXXXX,

    Ref: XXXXXXXX

    I write with reference to previous communication regarding an outstanding balance on the account and wish to make an offer to resolve that will suitably please both parties.

    As the disputed balance was indeed disputed, the balance was never paid as I was awaiting additional correspondence and feel that you were too hasty in issuing a default in the first place. As such, I feel a comprimise should be reached that suits both parties. The balance was never left due to any kind of fraud or negligence but due to the amount being in dispute. As a result, should I decide to take this through the County Court there is a high probability that this will become enforced and so to save us both the time and hassle of litigation, I confirm I am more than happy to settle the amount owing so long as you can agree to, and ensure that, the following actions will be carried out;
    • The Default Notice will be removed
    • The Status of the account will change from “Defaulted” to “Settled”
    • The Current Balance will appear as £0.00
    • The Default / Delinquent Balance will be set to £0.00
    • There will be no date in the “Defaulted Date” field (as it will be removed)
    • There will be no date in the “Date Last Delinquent” field on the report
    • This will apply to all 3 Credit Reference Agencies, namely Experian, Equifax & Call Credit
    If you're happy with my proposal, please respond confirming each of the above points on official letterheaded paper, confirming the exact amount owing and I will send a cheque by return.

    I look forward to your response.

    Yours faithfully,

    Sign here
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • defaultworry
    defaultworry Posts: 51 Forumite
    Excellent - when I get my response I will post it here.

    If the template letter is the way to go after that I will go down that route.
  • never-in-doubt
    never-in-doubt Posts: 20,613 Forumite
    edited 22 July 2009 at 1:29PM
    defaultworry wrote: »
    If I was offered this option I would bite their hands off. Even if this is some kind of fraud or mix up, £95 to remove this blight from my credit report would be a fair exchange in my opinion.

    The letter to send, assuming all else fails, to make this offer is in my last post (#18 ). BUT wait on this - I just read the post properly and if it is not your debt then you do not pay it and you cannot acknowledge a debt that is not yours either so don't sorry too much about this, i'll do you a letter that is relevant when they next get back to you..... :p
    defaultworry wrote: »
    My CCA request got sent back because I did not sign it in ink. I'm guessing they have something to compare my signature to - that's why they needed it a hard copy of the signature. I will have to wait another month max.

    You do not have to sign a CCA request and I hope to god you never? They are notorious for copy/pasting - i'll not go on about their illegal methods but certainly never ever sign in ink - usea digital signature.

    For clarity on this, Call Credit refused to issue my SAR without a signature so i've ripped apart the 6th principle of the DPA and proved to them they are talking rubbish and then complained to the ICO. This will be concluded shortly but suffice to say, they know they are advertising false data about me and need my signature to cover themselves legally cos when they SAR me and I take it to court, they'll be screwed.....
    defaultworry wrote: »
    I'm unsure what happens next if they provide me with an original agreement.

    They'll send a true copy of the CCA. When it comes let us know and we'll advise further - you need to check the prescribed terms Here.
    defaultworry wrote: »
    Also, What happens if they can't?
    They are in default and must remove the default entry until they can provide the valid CCA. They cannot chase you for money without an agreement either.
    defaultworry wrote: »
    If they had traced me down to my new address I would have seen a default letter and I haven't - this is promising. Thanks for this information.

    Hmmm, they may have linked you though - but again, depends..... Have you seen both accounts on your credit report? If so what shows under address 1, address 2, address 3 and linked addresses? I dont want you to tell me the addresses but what I mean is does the address purported to be that of account #1 show anywhere on the report such as linked address etc...?
    defaultworry wrote: »
    I'm a little lost here as I fully paid the new account. I'm guessing that any confusion will not be cleared up until I get the CCA

    If you fully paid the account (account #2) you admit to having, start by getting your last couple of statements together as you'll need these.

    defaultworry wrote: »
    Thanks for putting my mind at rest. I was really worried I had acknowledged the debt. I'm at work just now so I'll check out the other thread at lunch time. I'm hoping for the payment for removal angle though :D

    Thanks again for your help.

    Noooo - if you did not take the account then you cannot pay it off! This could be an underlying problem such as ID fraud so this needs to sorted first......

    Keep us posted and we'll sort this for you - its an easy one to do so long as you're 100% certain you didn't have the first account.:T
    :o 2010 - year of the troll :o

    Niddy - Over & Out :wave:
  • defaultworry
    defaultworry Posts: 51 Forumite
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    The letter to send, assuming all else fails, to make this offer is in my last post (#18 ). BUT wait on this - I just read the post properly and if it is not your debt then you do not pay it and you cannot acknowledge a debt that is not yours either so don't sorry too much about this, i'll do you a letter that is relevant when they next get back to you..... :p

    I will need to wait and see what they can dig up on this.

    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    You do not have to sign a CCA request and I hope to god you never? They are notorious for copy/pasting - i'll not go on about their illegal methods but certainly never ever sign in ink - usea digital signature.

    I signed it and posted it at lunch time. I seem to be digging a bigger hole for myself on this day by day.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    They'll send a true copy of the CCA. When it comes let us know and we'll advise further - you need to check the prescribed terms Here.

    I will post the CCa up on here when I get it because I'm not doing too well on making progress so far :(
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    They are in default and must remove the default entry until they can provide the valid CCA. They cannot chase you for money without an agreement either.

    Fingers crossed they cannot find the apporpraite paperwork....especially given my latest blunder.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    Hmmm, they may have linked you though - but again, depends..... Have you seen both accounts on your credit report? If so what shows under address 1, address 2, address 3 and linked addresses? I dont want you to tell me the addresses but what I mean is does the address purported to be that of account #1 show anywhere on the report such as linked address etc...?

    Both accounts are on the report. One is for my old address, one for my new address. Address 1 shows as a linked address to address 2 under that the linked addresses section of the report, but not for Santander cards. Nothing is on the report in the linked address section for Santander cards. Strange.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    If you fully paid the account (account #2) you admit to having, start by getting your last couple of statements together as you'll need these.

    I will hunt these out - I will definitely have them as I keep everything.
    never-in-doubt wrote: »
    Keep us posted and we'll sort this for you - its an easy one to do so long as you're 100% certain you didn't have the first account.:T

    I'm not 100% certain as I cannot remember. More like 80% just now!
This discussion has been closed.
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