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Debate House Prices


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Really really gloomy article from Robert Peston this morning

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Comments

  • tomstickland
    tomstickland Posts: 19,538 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    wintersunshine wrote: »
    House prices were high because we had full employment. We have never had full employement before. The only thing that was ever going to bring house prices down was a recession and they are ugly. And this one is going to be really ugly.
    We've never had full employment.
    House prices were high because it was too easy to borrow a lot of money.
    Happy chappy
  • Austin_Allegro
    Austin_Allegro Posts: 1,462 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    wintersunshine wrote: »
    It is not a cause of celebration if your children can afford a house but haven't got a job.

    Yes it is! If houses were cheap enough for dolies to buy, that would be brilliant!

    The fact is that nobody wanted this recession; but many, including those on HPC, realised that it was an inevitable outcome of the lunacy of the boom years.

    If they 'cheered on' a recession in any way, it was because idiot bulls refused to accept anything could go wrong with their money-for-nothing, pyramid economy and they wanted to see them get a good dose of reality.

    This is all part of the inevitable backlash by bulls against anyone who disagrees with them. First, anyone who questioned everlasting HPI was laughed at, then they were ignored, now they are blamed. It's classic bubble mentality.
    'Never keep up with Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's cheaper.' Quentin Crisp
  • WTF?_2
    WTF?_2 Posts: 4,592 Forumite
    dopester wrote: »
    If you had your way the average slavebox would cost £1 million+... and x40 earnings.

    You'd have property speculators borrowing or MEW-ing forever to push prices up, which pushes up values for everyone else, just regular home-owners, many of whom are stupid enough to celebrate the perceived increase in value as a good thing.

    Except you pay no mind to the younger generations having to buy a place at crazy money. Price them out, force them to try and take on crazy debt obligations, or have them renting one of your BTLs, as you kick back and enjoy HPI capital appreciation.

    Those times are gone miladdo. The economy is crashing thanks to your addiction to credit. Soon will come a realisation that crazy high house prices are in a twillight zone compared to the rotten foundations of the economy. Enjoy the crash.

    You gave no thought to younger generations being forced in to debt slavery to buy a house and now the market is going to punish you. Hopefully in some instances, the debts some older people have taken on with greedy speculation will see them lose property portfolios, allowing younger generations to get in at a very reasonable price that reflects real market conditions. Take your medicine.

    Spot on - It's idiot HPI cheerleaders like 'Wintersunshine' (or rather, the hand up his sock) that got us into this mess through their actions.
    But so much easier to blame those of us who saw this coming as having caused it with our opinions.
    --
    Every pound less borrowed (to buy a house) is more than two pounds less to repay and more than three pounds less to earn, over the course of a typical mortgage.
  • steadysaver
    steadysaver Posts: 389 Forumite
    wintersunshine wrote: »
    House prices were high because we had full employment. We have never had full employement before. The only thing that was ever going to bring house prices down was a recession and they are ugly. And this one is going to be really ugly.

    Rubbish. It was because of 100% mortgages at 6 - 7 times salary.

    Also house prices have been dropping long before we entered recession (Which technically we have not entered yet, just waiting for the figures though)
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    wintersunshine wrote: »
    But you HPCers got what you wanted - cheap houses



    Unfortunately, it comes with a price tag....your job, or your partner's job, or your sister's job, or your friend's job...and then they lose their house.

    I regretted the ridiculous HPI of the last few years. I also regretted the massive debt run up, both by the state and individuals.

    I thought, and still think, that in social terms higher house prices are a Bad Thing and lower ones a Good Thing.

    It seemed inevitable to me that the housing bubble would burst.

    That's not exactly the same as wanting a recession, more seeing it coming.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    Anyone else noticed the change in emphasis among former HPI fans?

    It's gone from, "house prices will never drop, you're insane" to, "you wanted this to happen, so it's all your fault".
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    wintersunshine wrote: »
    House prices were high because we had full employment. We have never had full employement before.

    I thought employment levels were much higher in the 1960s than now. Or, rather, unemployment levels. That's one reason why, say, London Transport put such efforts into recruiting staff in the West Indies at the time.

    House prices were high because of a bubble, and artificial raising.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • Austin_Allegro
    Austin_Allegro Posts: 1,462 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    neverdespairgirl wrote: »
    Anyone else noticed the change in emphasis among former HPI fans?

    It's gone from, "house prices will never drop, you're insane" to, "you wanted this to happen, so it's all your fault".

    *adopts American psychologist's soothing tones*

    When events we don't like occur, we look for scapegoats; particularly those who had protected themselves in some way against the unwanted occurrence or predicted it, or who are thought to have profited from it.

    I also think this ties into the Kubler-Ross model of bereavement - bulls are at the 'bargaining' stage where they are trying to understand what caused the crash and why, and in some cases this translates into scapegoat hunting.

    *adjusts corduroy jacket and puffs on pipe*
    'Never keep up with Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's cheaper.' Quentin Crisp
  • chucky
    chucky Posts: 15,170 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    House prices were rising - get over it.
    House prices are dropping - get over it.

    If you can afford to buy - do it now or bide your time when you think it;s the best time for you.

    Those that couldn't afford previously are the most vocal now and probably can't afford now or will ever be able to in the future either. That's the sad and even amusing bit, if that's allowed to be said.

    As for Robbie P, he has to keep himself in a job. Do you think he'll get his big pay rise and bonus if he doesn't have x amount of web site hits or the large number of viewers that he has. It's all interlinked unfortunately, sorry to go back on topic...
  • Austin_Allegro
    Austin_Allegro Posts: 1,462 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    chucky wrote: »
    Those that couldn't afford previously are the most vocal now and probably can't afford now or will ever be able to in the future either. That's the sad and even amusing bit, if that's allowed to be said.

    What about those who could afford but didn't want to buy an overpriced asset?

    I think the whole concept of 'affordability' in the recent boom became meaningless anyway, as it all depended on the level of debt you were willing/able/stupid enough to take on.
    'Never keep up with Joneses. Drag them down to your level. It's cheaper.' Quentin Crisp
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