What are my Consumer Rights (The Outcome ARGGGGGGGGGG)

magicmaria · 2 February 2006 at 2:25PM

thanks very much for all your replies, i will give Argos 7 days to contact me back with the outcome before I decided on the next course of action - I will though besending a very strong letter of complaint to Head Office

stugib · 2 February 2006 at 3:24PM

Wig wrote:

It is up to a court to decide if it is acceptable for a phone to fail after 6 weeks of use, I would say they would find in her favour. I would also say that as soon as Argos knows you are serious about going to court they will issue a refund. You have to make it perfectly clear you know what you are doing, you have to give them one month to issue the refund before you process the claim, but in that month you can show them a screen shot of your claim against Argos all ready to be fired off on the next click of the mouse.

mtm,
You contradict yourself, 1st you say authoritatively that "you have passed the short period of time you have to legally reject the goods" then you admit that there is no such "short period of time" in law. This is a 150pound phone, definately expected to last longer than 6 weeks.

I know I said "right" and I admit I was being over zealous there with my choice of words, but you said Argos are "entitled" to repair....no they are not, they are entitled to their opinion, just as the consumer is entitled to his opinion. The consumer does not have to accept a repair and can insist on a refund or exchange, the merchant does not have to agree...and ultimately it is up to the consumer to stand their ground and use the court if needed.

If it were me I'd stick to my guns, too many people just give up saying it's not worth it, then we wonder why we have such crap customer service in this country.

Wig,

It's not about opinions or giving up your rights, and there is no contradiction, as the law, as mtm and mcelhinney have correctly told you, is clear.

You have a time to inspect the goods to see if they work and are as described - if they don't you can reject them and demand a refund, but as long as you've had time to check and use them and it works initially then you've accepted the goods. 6 weeks is most definitely long enough to accept the goods. Once you've accepted the goods you have no right to a refund.

After you've accepted, goods must last a reasonable time. As you did correctly say, this varies on the type of good, the price you paid, etc etc. You have a claim period of up to 6 years but it does not mean ALL goods are guaranteed for 6 years - you almost certainly couldn't claim a replacement for a broken £50 TV after 5 1/2 years.

If the goods develop a fault in less than a reasonable time, it depends then on how long you've had them. If less than 6 months it's assumed to be there at time of manufacture/purchase. If after 6 months, it's up to you (the consumer) to prove it was there at time of manufacture. All this excludes mistreatment etc.

If you can prove (either by default if <6 months, or by other means otherwise), that it is faulty, then you are entitled to a repair or replacement, probably at the retailers discretion. You are NOT entitled to a refund.

I'm all for people enforcing their rights and using the small claims court - I'm about to start proceedings for a misdescribed item if I don't get a refund shortly, but you'll look pretty silly, and be £30+ out of pocket if you go to court trying to enforce rights you don't have. Leaving aside the fact of proving you bought that phone from there, Argos ARE entitled to repair the product within a reasonable time.

Stuart

Wig · 3 February 2006 at 12:36AM

They are NOT entitled to repair the product it is the consumers choice to choose between repair, replacement, or refund if it is inherantly faulty.

A refund is payable if there is an inherent fault at time of sale, the fact that this failed at 6 weeks, is good enough to show it had an inherant fault at time of sale.

magicmaria · 3 February 2006 at 10:10AM

Hi Everyone - well got home last night and Argos phoned me said as a gesture of good will they would exchange the phone - went straight over to the store and asked to speak to the Manager, was told she was busy and the young lad at the counter would help. Gave him my repair slip and straight away he brought the old phone from under the desk - now this bit is interesting on Monday they sealed the box infront of me and looking at the box last night it hadn't been opened it was exactly as it was on monday - so had they sent it off for repair?????? or verifying it was the right phone........ I just took the replacement but made the guy open it all up to check everything was there and to make sure there was a sticky label on it where the battery goes. I am still going to write a letter of complaint as the service was unacceptable and I certainly will not be using their stores again - Thanks everybody for all your support and advice

hjb123 · 3 February 2006 at 10:18AM

Sounds like they never even sent it off!

trickytrolleys · 3 February 2006 at 10:35AM

Wig wrote:

They are NOT entitled to repair the product it is the consumers choice to choose between repair, replacement, or refund if it is inherantly faulty.

A refund is payable if there is an inherent fault at time of sale, the fact that this failed at 6 weeks, is good enough to show it had an inherant fault at time of sale.

Not in law, the standard is around 28 days for acceptance, not very fair but true!

stugib · 3 February 2006 at 11:27AM

Wig wrote:

They are NOT entitled to repair the product it is the consumers choice to choose between repair, replacement, or refund if it is inherantly faulty.

A refund is payable if there is an inherent fault at time of sale, the fact that this failed at 6 weeks, is good enough to show it had an inherant fault at time of sale.

From the DTI website:

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

---

Q4. I know I can demand my money back within a "reasonable time" but how long is that?

The law does not specify a precise time as it will vary for most sales contracts as all the factors need to be taken into account to be fair to all sides. The pair of everyday shoes may only have a few days before the period expires but a pair of skis, purchased in a Summer Sale, may be allowed a longer period by a court.

Q5. After the "reasonable time" has passed, what can I do?

You may seek damages, which would be the amount of money necessary to have the goods repaired or replaced. Frequently retailers will themselves offer repair or replacement. But, if you are a consumer (not making the purchase in the course of a business) you have the statutory right to seek a repair or replacement as an alternative to seeking damages.

Q12. Neither repair nor replacement of the goods are possible. What can I do?

You may either pursue the old route of damages or a partial or full refund. Probably either would give you exactly the same amount of money. You would seek a full refund in scenarios such as those where you had enjoyed absolutely no benefit from the goods. If you had benefited from them then you would seek a partial refund as a fair remedy. This is exactly the reasoning that would be employed if you sought damages.

From Consumer Direct (trading standards/DTI):

Rejecting faulty goods
You have a right to 'reject' faulty goods. If you tell the seller promptly that the goods are faulty and you don't want them, you should be able to get your money back. As long as you have not legally 'accepted' the goods, you can still 'reject' them - that is, refuse to accept them.

One of the ways you accept goods is by keeping them after you've had a reasonable time to examine them, and without clearly saying that you want to return them. What is 'reasonable', however, is not fixed - it depends on the circumstances. Normally, you can at least take your purchase home and try it out. But if you delay in examining what you've bought or in telling the seller that you wish to reject the goods, then you might lose your right to reject.

Refunds
You are entitled to your money back if there is a fault with the goods, or they are any of the following:

* Unsatisfactory quality
* Not fit for their purpose
* Misdescribed (not what they are supposed to be)

You must be able to prove that the fault was present when the goods were sold. The burden of proof is on the consumer.

Even if you have used the goods a few times, you are probably still entitled to a refund. However, if you have had some use from the goods, the trader may make a reduction from the original price when refunding the money.

If you have not had a reasonable opportunity to check the goods, you could possibly be entitled to a refund if you complain at a later date.

However, since the 31st March 2003, the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations give you parallel or alternate rights. Instead of a refund, you may choose to ask for a replacement or a repair. Goods which do not conform to the contract within the six months after they were delivered are presumed to have been faulty when you got them. In these cases, you do not have to prove the fault was present when the goods were sold. Instead, the trader must prove that the fault was not present when the goods were sold. The burden of proof is on the trader.

If a repair or replacement is not available or turns out to be unsuitable, you could then ask for a refund. Contact Consumer Direct for further advice.

So full refund if you reject the goods as faulty within reasonable time.
Repair or replacement after you've accepted them.
If repair or replacement not possible, full or partial refund.

I think the key is the 'pair of shoes' - sure, you'd expect a pair of shoes to last longer that two days, and if they didn't you'd be entitled to repair or replacement, but after the two days you've accepted them and aren't entitled to a refund.

What are my Consumer Rights (The Outcome ARGGGGGGGGGG)

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