Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • bflare
    • By bflare 12th Jun 19, 3:59 PM
    • 299Posts
    • 138Thanks
    bflare
    Can I stop the boiler heating the HW when I am not home?
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 19, 3:59 PM
    Can I stop the boiler heating the HW when I am not home? 12th Jun 19 at 3:59 PM
    The central heating controller is not capable of setting the CH & HW separately. Therefore, the boiler keeps kicking in to heat up the HW when I am in bed & at work. From the 11th May to 10th June I have used 635kWh gas. I am in a 2 bed bungalow & leave the house at 7:30am & do not get in while 5pm although 3 days per week my son arrives home at around 3:30pm & I think her turns the heating on. However, it appears that I am using a lot of gas & I presume it is because the boiler keeps kicking in to heat up the HW tank. Is there anything I can do to stop this? Maybe I need to turn the programmer from auto to off when I leave for work or on a night or will this still make the boiler kick in when the water temp drops?
Page 1
    • Talldave
    • By Talldave 12th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    • 472 Posts
    • 282 Thanks
    Talldave
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:33 PM
    The controller may not be capable of independent CH & HW but is the rest of the system?

    If you have a couple of 2 port valves or a 3 port valve it could well be, in which case a new controller would solve the problem. Presumably the heating doesn't come on in summer with the hot water? In which case have the valve in your system changed to a 3 port valve and change the controller.

    Is there a tank stat? If not hot water will getting unnecessarily hot.

    Switching the programmer to off should keep everything off, try it.

    Time to consult a qualified heating engineer. It must be possible to update the system for full independent control of CH & HW. Then you can have HW set for morning & evening and have CH timed to kick in just before first arrival home. Get a programmable thermostat and you can set a lower temp for night time too.
    Last edited by Talldave; 12-06-2019 at 6:45 PM.
    • Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • By Flt. Lt. Biggles 12th Jun 19, 4:50 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:50 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:50 PM
    The central heating controller is not capable of setting the CH & HW separately. Therefore, the boiler keeps kicking in to heat up the HW when I am in bed & at work. From the 11th May to 10th June I have used 635kWh gas. I am in a 2 bed bungalow & leave the house at 7:30am & do not get in while 5pm although 3 days per week my son arrives home at around 3:30pm & I think her turns the heating on. However, it appears that I am using a lot of gas & I presume it is because the boiler keeps kicking in to heat up the HW tank. Is there anything I can do to stop this? Maybe I need to turn the programmer from auto to off when I leave for work or on a night or will this still make the boiler kick in when the water temp drops?
    Originally posted by bflare
    There should be an electrical switch to isolate the boiler somewhere.

    (You could turn the boiler off at the boiler itself, but that is usually just a cheap potentiometer, and regularly using that will soon probably wear it out)

    Caution: If your heating system is designed to operate on a thermal store basis, then the tank is supposed to remain hot 24/7. Regularly turning it off may cause harm, may not save all that much, and could have an adverse affect on your hot water availability.

    20 worth of gas for a month is not really a lot, even at this time of year.
    Last edited by Flt. Lt. Biggles; 12-06-2019 at 4:56 PM.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 13th Jun 19, 10:32 AM
    • 299 Posts
    • 138 Thanks
    bflare
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 10:32 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 10:32 AM
    The controller may not be capable of independent CH & HW but is the rest of the system?

    If you have a couple of 2 port valves or a 3 port valve it could well be, in which case a new controller would solve the problem. Presumably the heating doesn't come on in summer with the hot water? In which case have the valve in your system changed to a 3 port valve and change the controller.

    Is there a tank stat? If not hot water will getting unnecessarily hot.

    Switching the programmer to off should keep everything off, try it.

    Time to consult a qualified heating engineer. It must be possible to update the system for full independent control of CH & HW. Then you can have HW set for morning & evening and have CH timed to kick in just before first arrival home. Get a programmable thermostat and you can set a lower temp for night time too.
    Originally posted by Talldave

    Thanks for the reply. I am not too sure if you can set the CH & HW independently. I don't think you can to be honest. The programmer is a Potterton EP3001 & the user manual can be found here https://www.freeboilermanuals.com/assets/User_Manuals/Potterton/ep2001.pdf



    The tank does have a thermostat set at 120 which I assume is F. I think it is a 3 port valve. U have taken a pic of the set up https://imgur.com/cMOTzH1


    In summer I have the thermostat set to 10 so the heating rarely comes on but I can hear the boiler come on several times to heat up the hot water tank. I am thinking that it is this that is using the gas & whether it is necessary that it's coming on when I am at work or during the night? I guess it is coming on just to keep the tank at a certain temperature & this is better than it heating a full tank of water up just a couple of times per day?


    It is a rented property so I would have to ask the landlord about changing the programmer.
    • bflare
    • By bflare 13th Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    • 299 Posts
    • 138 Thanks
    bflare
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    There should be an electrical switch to isolate the boiler somewhere.

    (You could turn the boiler off at the boiler itself, but that is usually just a cheap potentiometer, and regularly using that will soon probably wear it out)

    Caution: If your heating system is designed to operate on a thermal store basis, then the tank is supposed to remain hot 24/7. Regularly turning it off may cause harm, may not save all that much, and could have an adverse affect on your hot water availability.

    20 worth of gas for a month is not really a lot, even at this time of year.
    Originally posted by Flt. Lt. Biggles

    Yeah I am thinking maybe switching it off would not be a good idea. I assume when the boiler does kick in it is only keeping the water in the tank up to a certain temp. If I stop it doing this I assume it would then need to heat up a full tank of water from cold a couple of days per week & would probably use more gas?
    • markin
    • By markin 13th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    • 847 Posts
    • 692 Thanks
    markin
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    The ep3001 can be programed for say 7am-730am and only the hw will come on if the stat calls for it, so it will save gas.

    140f is 60C, it should be set at 60C to prevent legionairres disease.

    You have a timer, you have a diverter, you have the manual now, it should be working, If it fails, check its not locked, if it still fails report it to the Landlord, If it turns out to be user error you will likely be charged for the plumber/electrician call out.

    Worse case you can just turn the tank down to 0 when not needed, maybe you already do.
    Last edited by markin; 13-06-2019 at 8:40 PM.
    • Talldave
    • By Talldave 14th Jun 19, 8:42 AM
    • 472 Posts
    • 282 Thanks
    Talldave
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:42 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:42 AM
    It's not clear if the EP3001 can support independent HW & CH control, as the manual refers to an "interlock". Googling would seem to indicate it cannot, because lots of people discuss replacing it to get the independent control.


    You appear to have all the necessary components in the system, it's just going to be a matter of whether the wiring to the backplate of the programmer has separate feeds for HW & CH. If it does, you could swap out the EP3001 for a Potterton EP2, which is supposed to be compatible with your existing backplate, and would give you all the control you need.
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 14th Jun 19, 10:50 AM
    • 4,007 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 10:50 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 10:50 AM
    On page 2 is does say the HW and CH need to come on together.

    I would adjust the timer to ensure it is on for 1 hour in the morning (maximum)

    and then on from 3:30pm - 7:30 for summer time

    See if that saves you money.

    Be worth spending money on a new timer.
    They usually have a universal backplate.

    So as long at the timer isn't mounted against something, it can just be a case of (turning power off) undoing 2 screws. hinging the timer up and then hooking a new timer on.

    e.g

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAYTON-LP522-TWIN-CHANNEL-PROGRAMMER-ACL-INVENSYS-BG-Iflo-Timer/223498855186?epid=2255331060&hash=item340991e312:g :U5YAAOSwO7pcx3zV

    used or new
    Last edited by AndyPK; 14-06-2019 at 10:56 AM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

163Posts Today

1,606Users online

Martin's Twitter