Confused about late notification

ecofool · 22 May 2019 at 11:15PM

-Apologies for the odd way of writing decided to avoid personal pronouns.-

PPC issued NTK.

The contravention was 5th April 2019, letter received 22 May 2019, date sent 20th May 2019.

PCN was by CCTV. Many clear photos including close-ups of notice sign and words legible.

Payment machine was out of order but notice states don't park if out of order, but parked for 35 mins anyway

However, first notified of alleged contravention by ZZPS letter suggesting late payment and added debt collecting charges. This received on 17 May 2018, dated 13 May 2019.

When challenged (by email) on this being the first notification, the response was "apologies sent in error," so this was followed by the above mentioned PCN.

(Email did not confirm or deny identity of person parking)

Reading many posts none of the suggested options or responses seems to fit this situation.

Issued NTK includes POFA paragraph, photos all clear including being able to read the parking sign.

As 41 days from NTK (34 days from ZZPS) has passed from contravention is that enough to contest?

From other posts, unclear if 29 days has any power as it seems to just change to the 6 years rule of pursuing a debt.

If the failure to notify within 29 days is valid, then would advice be to state that in appeal to One Parking Solutions?

Possible appeal words:

This notification was issued on the 20th May 2019 for an alleged parking contravention on the 5th April 2019. This exceeds the 29 day notification period. Please advise on what grounds your Parking Charge Notice is now valid.

Please could you advise

Mark2spark · 23 May 2019 at 1:05AM

Your next step is to request a SAR from the data controller of One Parking Solutions.
That will reveal if they sent an initial PCN, - which you clearly didn't receive, - before the 'late payment' letter dated 20th May.
Many of these companies do not send the first NtK, - or at least many are not received! - so you would be arguing for them to provide proof of posting. At this stage, i.e., without court started, you might as well argue with a brick wall.
The contents of the SAR, and the *exact* wording on the info revealed, like "Do not use the car park if out of order" determines the shape of the appeal.
You will need to appeal anyway - it will be rejected - but the point would be to obtain a POPLA code, so that a 'proper' appeal can be launched.

Coupon-mad · 23 May 2019 at 3:32PM

ecofool wrote: »

As 41 days from NTK (34 days from ZZPS) has passed from contravention is that enough to contest?

Yep! You will win at POPLA, as long as the driver is not implied.

From other posts, unclear if 29 days has any power as it seems to just change to the 6 years rule of pursuing a debt.

If the failure to notify within 29 days is valid, then would advice be to state that in appeal to One Parking Solutions?

Possible appeal words:
This notification was issued on the 20th May 2019 for an alleged parking contravention on the 5th April 2019. This exceeds the 29 day notification period. Please advise on what grounds your Parking Charge Notice is now valid.

Please could you advise

Yes those appeal words look fine, why not put them into the NEWBIES thread blue writing template appeal, instead of the paragraph about VRNs and PDT machines?

Meanwhile, I think you nee to also send an email complaint to Steve Clark at the BPA about two things:

PCN was by CCTV...However, first notified of alleged contravention by ZZPS letter suggesting late payment and added debt collecting charges. This received on 17 May 2018, dated 13 May 2019.

When challenged (by email) on this being the first notification, the response was "apologies sent in error," so this was followed by the above mentioned PCN.

and

NTK includes POFA paragraph, photos all clear including being able to read the parking sign.

Together this is just pathetic, maladministration and a breach of the BPA CoP because:

- they failed to send a NTK at all, so no PCN whatsoever, and went straight to debt collector letters. How many other ''errors'' have they made to other victims?

- they admitted their error but then compounded it by sending the keeper a misleading NTK claiming keeper liability under the POFA, a second BPA CoP breach and completely misleading re liability.

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

Email Mr Clark and show him this thread link, as he looks at MSE.

How many times do we think OPS might be making this 'error'?

How many total idiots have paid this scam?

Ask Mr Clark, are OPS going to be 'encouraged' to investigate their records and refund all the people who were stoooopid enough to pay, when they got a debt collector letter and no PCN?

Are OPS going to be made to change their systems (or close down would be better ...those deluded people at PPCs need to get proper jobs).

How can it possibly happen that NO PCN AT ALL is issued, and the case goes straight to debt collection letters without offering any appeal whatsoever, then when sussed, OPS send out letters misleading the keeper about their LACK of liability?

ABSOLUTE SCAM.

ecofool · 23 May 2019 at 4:14PM

Terrific support and information from you two. :T

I put an email together based on Mark2spark's suggestions (I hadn't seen Coupon-mad's response) and sent to One Parking Solutions Data officer as follows:

Hi

One Parking Solutions have created some confusion about how you handled a PCN relating to my vehicle. It started with an error you made when you sent the PCN to ZZPS for non-payment when this was the first I had heard about this.

I'm pleased to say you admitted this was your error, however, this was then followed a few days later with the Notice to Keeper from you.

I'm therefore keen to understand what information you based the PCN on and how you kept my information secure. Therefore using GDPR I am making a Subject Access Request for the following:

As I'm sure you are aware of the ICO Code notes, you “should be prepared to make extensive efforts to find and retrieve the requested information.”

- All photos that were taken
- all letters/emails sent and received relating to the PCN not only to and from me but including other correspondence enabling you to obtain my information from the DVLA and the information passed to ZZPS
- Pay and display machine record from the day with payment information. Please ensure vehicle registration numbers of other cars are obscured.
- all data you hold on me
- the evidence you will rely on for the PCN

I note that One Parking Solutions are members of BPA and therefore adhere to their appeals process including POPLA.

Like you, I urge you not to ignore this email; I am here to help you resolve this PCN.

Regards

Coupon-mad

I'll follow your instructions too now and contact steve.c@britishparking.co.uk.

ecofool · 23 May 2019 at 6:03PM

Thanks to Coupon-mad I have just emailed Mr Clark the following, it included a link to this forum. I'm working on the assumption that the BPA wants to uphold their own reputation and to offer best practice.

Dear Mr Clark

I recently received a debt collecting letter from ZZPS about an unpaid Parking Charge Notice - this included the full outstanding amount (£100) and added a further £70 costs.

I emailed ZZPS (copying One Parking Solutions) to say this was the first I'd heard about this. Then One Parking Solutions emailed and said that this was an error. A few days later I received an NTK from One Parking Solutions.

Both One Parking Solutions and ZZPS are members of the British Parking Association, does this behaviour meet your Code of Practice requirements, expectations and minimum levels of professionalism?

Is it OK for them to pass my information around in this way? I thought GDPR (and BPA) frowned on this?

The ZZPS debt collecting letter was 34 days after the alleged contravention and the NTK from One Parking Solutions was 41 days after the alleged contravention. Is this an acceptable time delay?

For some guidance on this, I explained my situation on the MoneySavingExpert forum here's a link to that post.

One responder rightly thought this could be a tactic by One Parking Solutions.
Many because of fear and embarrassment might pay the £170 whilst others who question it get told it was done in error and then receive an NTK. Relieved the debt has been reduced to just £60 they pay.

As the British Parking Association, you would want evidence and reassurance that One Parking Solutions do not use such tactics as do I and many others.

A good indication to help confirm this would be for them to advise you on the percentage of all their Parking Charge Notices where £170 charge is paid.

A second but equally useful indication of their integrity would be the percentage of all their Parking Charge Notices where the £60 fee is paid 30 days or more after the alleged contravention.

If I am the lone victim of a one-off error as they are suggesting then, of course, the percentage of £60 fees paid more than 30 days later will be 0% certainly well below 2%.

Perhaps you should require all BPA parking firms to separate out what payments they receive in percentage terms and for you to publish that for example:
Paid within 14 days
Paid from 15 to 29 days
Paid after 29 days
Disputed and cancelled
Disputed and paid

I look forward to your response on this and how you ensure One Parking Solutions are operating fully within your codes of practice.

Yours

Coupon-mad · 23 May 2019 at 7:50PM

I'm working on the assumption that the BPA wants to uphold their own reputation and to offer best practice.

We can but hope.

I hope Steve Clark looks at this thread and realises the issue is not just the debt collector letters sent BEFORE any NTK, but also the NTK citing keeper liability, illegally.

Typical OPS, high time they were booted out of the BPA AOS. Maybe they'll suit the lower levels of the IPC better.

IMHO, OPS are a dreadful firm, blighting car parks & 'roadways' in Sussex and other places with truly abysmal lack of signage.

Now we see they did this to you. Shocking lies about keeper liability.

ecofool · 23 May 2019 at 9:13PM

I am beginning to wonder about them, obviously, they will try all tactics to earn their crust but when those tactics seem to be bordering on intimidation and bullying then they must expect a robust defence from those who are not so easily intimidated.

If with each stage they choose to delay and confuse I will get a little tougher. We'll see how it plays out.

Thanks again for your guidance.

ecofool · 23 May 2019 at 9:15PM

Here's the response from Steve Clark

Thanks for your e-mail, the contents of which are all noted.

I am prepared to ask one of my team to investigate this matter for you but to do so, we would need the following information from you please;

Ø The PCN number
Ø Your vehicle registration number
Ø The location of the parking event.

For absolute clarity, unless you can provide me with the appropriate authority for us to provide you with the information that you have requested, I will not be doing so.

I have copied my colleague Gemma into this case as she will be handling this investigation - I am going on leave tomorrow evening and will not be responding to e-mails while away.

All the best

Steve Clark
Head of Business Operations
British Parking Association

Coupon-mad · 23 May 2019 at 9:24PM

Yep you can give that data to Steve and Gemma who were the only two voices of fairness I ever encountered over the years when contacting the BPA.

They were both good, and not fob off merchants.

Sadly, others were.

And it's that, and the even worse IPC/IAS, and the unforgivably anti-consumer Wright Hassall WHOPLA debacle (the BPA's lowest moment), and the Indigo Railway Penalties with no appeals, and the UHW Nurses' case (how bl00dy dare they take money from NHS staff?) and the Beavis case and all the money thrown at that case in order to slap the honest man and convince the Supreme Court to twist the law in favour of the unworthy moneygrabber firms, and the daily scams I've handled & read about over the years, that cause me to take no prisoners and speak the way I do about the industry.

Absolute scam, just as Parliament said. I have no idea how Steve C & Gemma D put up with the scammery and why on earth anyone thinks this is an industry.

Get rid. PPCs need banning completely.

ecofool · 23 May 2019 at 9:38PM

I've just emailed the requested details to Steve and Gemma

Coupon-mad · 24 May 2019 at 3:08AM

Ooh, look (Gemma/Steve) we are seeing a pattern.

Investigation needed into OPS's practices recently, please, maybe this is their new cunning plan:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6005059

Shawn56 wrote: »

Hello all, I require some advice.

I have received a letter from QDR Solicitors
"QDR Reference:
Penalty Charge Notice Number:
Vehicle Registration Mark:
Location:
Issue Date: 06/03/2019 13:15:00
Parking Event: Failure to park within a marked bay
Car Park Operator: One Parking Solution LTD
Outstanding Balance: £182

We have been instructed by ZZPS Limited who are acting on behalf of ONE PARKING SOLUTION LTD in connection with the recovery of debt, which has been incurred following the failure to repay the Parking Charge Notice, and we require you to make payment in full within the next 14 days.
Failure to make payment in full or contact us to discuss repayment of this debt may result in us recommending to our clients that we pass this matter over to our litigation department. This may mean they will look to obtain a county court judgment."

Now I've called them to tell them I never received a parking notice, nor have I received a previous letter and that I have no recollection of the event.

They state that their client maintains that they have sent correspondence (but can't prove it).
They won't show me evidence of the parking offence.

I told them they can take me to court as I will dispute this.

Any advice regarding this firm and private parking tickets.

Thanks in advance

Confused about late notification

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