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  • FIRST POST
    • maryeta
    • By maryeta 16th May 19, 2:05 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    maryeta
    Serving notice on rolling periodic tenancy
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 2:05 PM
    Serving notice on rolling periodic tenancy 16th May 19 at 2:05 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I have been doing some research and I think I now have my facts right so just wanted some confirmation/re-assurance.

    We have been on a rolling periodic tenancy (exact wording from my LL) since the end of our 2-fixed term contract. We agreed by email to not to sign a new contract and instead, move on to rolling periodic tenancy.

    Original FT contract: 10th June 2015 to 9th June 2017
    Entered the rolling contract supposedly from 10th June 2017 (so tenancy runs from 10th to 9th each month)

    The exact wording the LL used for the notice period is:

    "you would give us at least 1 month's notice of your intention to leave and we as the landlords, would need to give you two month's notice to vacate if we wanted the property back for any reason"

    We are hoping to complete by the end of June but we are pushing to exchange earlier than that, by the first week of June at the latest (maybe a bit optimistic considering offer was accepted on the 1st of May and the seller's solicitors are dragging their feet...).

    So my question is: in order for us to comply with our monthly agreement and only pay up to 9th July, we would need to serve our notice by the 8th June at the very latest to be on the safe side?

    If exchange ends up happening after this, then I take it that it doesn't matter whether we serve notice on the 11th June or 8th July, we would still be liable to pay until 8th August... (unless we can come to an agreement with the LL, we have been renting for over 4 years and have a good relationship with them, have not given them any grief and we have kept their flat spotless).

    Thanks for your help in advance,
    Mar!a
Page 1
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 16th May 19, 2:18 PM
    • 1,522 Posts
    • 2,432 Thanks
    Slithery
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 2:18 PM
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 2:18 PM
    Whatever you do, don't give your notice until after you have exchanged.
    • maryeta
    • By maryeta 16th May 19, 2:25 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    maryeta
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 2:25 PM
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 2:25 PM
    Whatever you do, don't give your notice until after you have exchanged.
    Originally posted by Slithery
    Yeah, definitely, that's why we are trying to work out the tenancy notice period date and work backwards from there to try to push the exchange before that.

    if things don't go to plan and we can't exchange when we want to, then we just have to account that if we get the numbers right, we are going to be liable for rent until August; in which case we might want to drag the exchange ourselves to a whole month later to not to have mortgage AND rent for 2 months.

    Thanks
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th May 19, 8:17 PM
    • 47,993 Posts
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 8:17 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 8:17 PM
    I assumeyou are on a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, not a Contractual Periodic? If not sure, read your tenancy agreement in conjunction with the link below.


    Assuming SPT, yes notice must be served on/before 9th June (lst day of theperiod)or at a pinch 10th June (1st day of preiod).


    'Served' = hand delivered in working hours, or posted 1st classs 2 postal working days before.




    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    • maryeta
    • By maryeta 16th May 19, 10:56 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    maryeta
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 10:56 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 10:56 PM
    I assumeyou are on a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, not a Contractual Periodic? If not sure, read your tenancy agreement in conjunction with the link below.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Hi there,

    Thanks for your answer, very useful.

    Trouble is I’m not sure as to whether is a SPT or contractual periodic as you mention, how could I find which one of the two it is? The wording I used is how the landlord called it (“rolling periodic tenancy”); I have just re-read the original fixed-term contract and all I can find with regards to termination is the below:

    “After the expiry of this Agreement and unless a new agreement has been entered into the Tenant may by serving two months written notice to terminate the tenancy at any time after the expiry of this Agreement the two months notice period must end at the end of a rental period and will until the end of the notice period and vacant possession is given up pay the Rent and observe and perform the agreements and obligations on the Tenant's part contained in the Agreement then immediately at the end of the notice period the tenancy will end but it does not release the Tenant from any outstanding obligation or claim”

    Allegedly when the LL approached me directly and offered either a new fresh agreement or a rolling periodic tenancy with one month notice this was our “new agreement” and as such I have the 1 month and not the 2 the original contract seems to indicate?

    Thanks again!!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th May 19, 6:18 PM
    • 47,993 Posts
    • 58,729 Thanks
    G_M
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 6:18 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 6:18 PM

    Allegedly when the LL approached me directly and offered either a new fresh agreement or a rolling periodic tenancy with one month notice this was our “new agreement” and as such I have the 1 month and not the 2 the original contract seems to indicate?
    Originally posted by maryeta
    Was this agreed? Verbally? In writing? How?

    If agreed, it would constitute creation of a Contractual Periodic Tenancy (since it alters the contractual notice requirements) and you would have to provide "one month notice" (which would be a calender month unless you'd agred it must align wth tenancy periods which you do not mention).

    However, if this was all verbal, either side could deny agreement was reached......

    If that discussion is ignored (either due to denial it took place, or because the discussion took place but agreement was not reached), then you fall back on th original contract.

    “After the expiry of this Agreement and unless a new agreement has been entered into the Tenant may by serving two months written notice to terminate the tenancy at any time after the expiry of this Agreement the two months notice period must end at the end of a rental period and will until the end of the notice period and vacant possession is given up pay the Rent and observe and perform the agreements and obligations on the Tenant's part contained in the Agreement then immediately at the end of the notice period the tenancy will end but it does not release the Tenant from any outstanding obligation or claim”
    Since the terms of notice in the contract are the same as notice required under a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, it becomes moot as to whether it is a CPT or SPT!
    • maryeta
    • By maryeta 17th May 19, 7:02 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    maryeta
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 7:02 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 7:02 PM
    Was this agreed? Verbally? In writing? How?
    Originally posted by G_M
    Hello,

    Thanks for your time again :-)

    It was all agreed by email, so we have the email they sent us with both alternatives and their suggested notice period (1 month for us, 2 months for them) and us agreeing we were happy to enter i to this rolling tenancy. Is this enough proof?

    Ok so this is interesting then, if it does not go with the original contract because is a new “contractual”, we can just do 1 month regardless of the original tenancy term? (E.g. we could give notice on 14th June and just pay until 14th July?)

    This would give us a lot of peace of mind of not ending with a double whammy mortgage + rent if that’s the case!

    Thanks so much
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th May 19, 7:12 PM
    • 47,993 Posts
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    G_M
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 7:12 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 7:12 PM
    A contract requires two things (well, 3 but only 2 relevant here): An offer, and acceptance.
    It was all agreed by email, so we have the email they sent us with both alternatives and their suggested notice period (1 month for us, 2 months for them)
    an offer

    and us agreeing we were happy to enter i to this rolling tenancy.

    acceptance

    Is this enough proof? Yes


    Ok so this is interesting then, if it does not go with the original contract because is a new “contractual”, we can just do 1 month regardless of the original tenancy term? (E.g. we could give notice on 14th June and just pay until 14th July?)
    Yes, though you might find they still argue notice must align with tenancy periods. ie a month ending on the 9th.
    Originally posted by maryeta
    Maybe have a chat with the LL in advance and clarify - it's always better to reach agreement rather than wait to the last minute and get into an argument.
    • maryeta
    • By maryeta 17th May 19, 7:28 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    maryeta
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 7:28 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 7:28 PM
    A contract requires two things (well, 3 but only 2 relevant here): An offer, and acceptance.
    Maybe have a chat with the LL in advance and clarify - it's always better to reach agreement rather than wait to the last minute and get into an argument.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Fantastic, thanks. We are still hoping to exchange by the 7th June but taking into consideration the searches have only just been submitted by the solicitor, we might not make it (although is meant to be a “straight forward” one because seller is not on a chain and we are FTBs).

    The pickle is if we miss exchange by a week or two; if that’s the case it might be safer to try to push exchange to 7th July instead because even though we have a really good relationship with our LLs, I would be hesitant to let them know we are going to be moving “any time” in case they ask us to leave beforehand or find a replacement tenant for before we could move out!

    Let’s see what happens then, but thanks so much for your help; this is a lot more clear now.
    • Johnhowell
    • By Johnhowell 18th May 19, 12:36 PM
    • 633 Posts
    • 283 Thanks
    Johnhowell
    I would be hesitant to let them know we are going to be moving “any time” in case they ask us to leave beforehand or find a replacement tenant for before we could move out!
    Originally posted by maryeta
    The LL will have to give you 2 months Notice - which is only a notice. They will have to go to court which takes time. Then the court order has to be served, which takes time and then bailiffs to be arranged - which takes time.
    I did find a webpage (Shelter?) the other week which graphical explained this process and it can take 8-9 months.

    So hopefully you will Complete on the purchase before then!

    As previous message stated, do nothing until you exchange. Then you give notice (1 months) with due regard to the required dates of your agreement as already discussed above. It is good to have an overlap of rental and purchased property. Easy to move stuff, get the new house set up to live in. Sort out: empty/cleaning/meter readings/exit inventory(if required)/hand over keys of rental place is less stressful...

    Good luck,
    J
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