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Disabled Parking at Station SABA

Thanks all all the useful info on this forum, but I really haven't been able to find answers to these specific issues:


My disabled brother aged 65 received 3 parking tickets from a station car park run by SABA /Indigo in February and March 2019. He had had his disabled parking badge displayed on all three occasions, but had not noticed there were new regulations requiring registerng and phoning up when parking: he wasn't expecitng any changes, they are small, above his eye level (he has a stoop) and he doesn't have a smartphone to download the app.



Because he is disabled, elderly, has some learning & memory issues and was alarmed by the threat of having to pay even more, he paid all three fines to a value of £185.85 and then handwrote an appeal.



I have Lasting Power of Attorney over his affairs, but he did not tell me that he had received the fines, or that he had written to appeal (obviously this was turned down). I only found out at the end of last week when I saw his last bank statement with the three payments to an unknown company.(Two were taken on one day and sent his account into the red).



My questions are:
1. Given that he has already paid, and the fines relate to February / March 2019, is there any point me appealing? And to whom should I appeal (Saba / collection agency etc.) Morally I feel I should and I have excellent persistence, but the matter seems legally very complicated and once they have his money, SABA or PCN Admin will have little incentive to engage in this process.


2. Given his difficulties, described above, could I cite the Equality Act (2010) saying that 'reasonable adjustments' were not made to the signage or payment process, to take account of his difficulties?


3. Is the fact that I have Lasting Power of Attorney over his financial affairs, and didn't know what had occurred, going to give me any leverage over the fact that we are out of time to make an appeal?


4. How could I used any existing forum templates to help with any recommended appeal, given that these fines have been paid?


I would be extremely grateful for any help with this anyone can give, or even any suggestions on any disabled organisations which might be able to help, as I have drawn a blank locally. Apologies for any faults in the posting process, as I am a newbie; I am so angy about what has happened and have not asked for help in this way before.
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Comments

  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Indigo/Saba at railways are different in that they are penalty notices. Ignore it they can't do anything.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,336 Forumite
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    he paid all three fines to a value of £185.85
    That just about seals his fate in terms of trying to pull anything back from SABA (aka Indigo). They will most certainly respond by saying the penalty (as they are termed by them) was legitimately applied and your brother accepted liability by paying.

    In most other cases, general run of the mill parking charges, I’d be saying, swallow it and learn from the experience, but this case is one of a particularly vulnerable person being preyed upon by venal predators.

    Recover any money is probably unlikely but you could make SABA’s life uncomfortable by enlisting the help of your MP and any disability groups specialising in the conditions your brother has.

    Also read this thread where some on has used an Equality and Human Rights Commission complaint template to hit a parking firm.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5987635

    Ultimately you could sue for your money by issuing an initial Letter Before Claim (costs you nothing), followed if you wish by a MCOL Claim which will cost just £25. Unless SABA defend the case you will win a judgment in default. They may decide that the effort and cost in defending is too much, and return your money.

    None of the above might work, but it does give SABA a bit of a kick!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,336 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    waamo wrote: »
    Indigo/Saba at railways are different in that they are penalty notices. Ignore it they can't do anything.

    The OP’s brother has already paid.:(
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,225 Forumite
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    Complain to your/your brother's MP. Contact local and national press.

    The only way I can think he will get his money back is to start a court claim, citing breach of the Equality Act 2010 as the scammers did not make reasonable adjustments for someone with protected characteristics in accordance with the act.

    Also complain to the landowner which may be Network Rail or the train operating company, again citing the EA 2010.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,191 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Fruitcake wrote: »

    The only way I can think he will get his money back is to start a court claim, citing breach of the Equality Act 2010 as the scammers did not make reasonable adjustments for someone with protected characteristics in accordance with the act.
    Or
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/09/bargepole-assists-motorist-to-reclaim.html
  • Just how low can these parking companies stoop? I think you should think about getting the press involved.

    I imagine that these weren’t windscreen tickets, since your brother was supposed to phone up and register, and it happened 3 times, I guess they were Notices to Owner, sent by post? A typical Indigo one looks like this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hMB-lrd6FdDrAhDM4TzTvhBLEw8yGEC9/view
    (see post 4 on this Pepipoo thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125339&hl=indigo )

    Were your brother’s ones the same? If so, the parking company are not only in breach of the Equality Act. What makes it even worse is the number of fraudulent assertions in the Notice to Owner which mis-led your brother into believing that he was legally obliged to pay up.

    He wasn’t. Nobody but the Court can impose a penalty for breach of the Byelaws - as confirmed by the DfT in this letter (bottom paragraph, first page): https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/311011/response/770331/attach/2/F0013227%20Follow%20Up%20Reply.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

    It’s obvious when you think about it. Anyone accused of a criminal offence (which, anachronistically, parking in breach of the Railway Byelaws is) is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a criminal court. It’s the most fundamental principle of our criminal justice system: the famous “golden thread” (per Lord Sankey, Woolmington v DPP (1935) AC 462), enshrined in statute from Magna Carta through the Bill of Rights Act 1689 to the present day in Article 6, European Convention on Human Rights.

    But Indigo like to drive a coach and horses through all that. They assert that Byelaw 14(4)(i) entitles them to impose a penalty on an as-yet innocent person. Of course it doesn’t. How can it? They are saying, in effect:

    1. We accuse you of this offence;
    2. We find our accusation proved;
    3. We impose the following penalty and we’ll prosecute or clamp you if you don’t pay up;
    4. We get to keep the proceeds.
    And finally:
    5a) We will decide your appeal.
    b) A second-tier appeal may only be made to an appeal service selected by ourselves. And in case you are wondering: no, your appeal will not be decided in accordance with established law.

    Talk about a kangaroo court! But the Notices look so official, and people naturally expect a major train company (and its agents) to act within the law in every way – so it doesn’t even occur to people they could be fraudulent.

    In short: your brother was mis-led by the false assertions in the Notice to Owner - assuming it's the same as the one in the link. At the very least, he should be entitled to a full refund under the Consumer (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regs 2008 as amended. There is also the more serious matter of damages for fraud/deceit to consider - useful guidance given by Rix LJ in The Kriti Palm (2007) 1 Lloyd’s Rep 555 - see para 251 onwards - here: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2006/1601.html

    To defraud a vulnerable person is utterly despicable. I hope you can fight back. At least let them be shamed by the media.
  • Many thanks to you all for your very helpful replies. I think I will go down the 'complaint' route, rather than wasting time trying to appeal, given the time which has passed. I feel there is little likelihood of my brother getting a refund, but I will be sending copies of the complaint to my MP and to Southern Rail, who own the site. If I can get the procedures and signage changed to make it more user friendly for other disabled and elderly people, that is probably the most I can hope to achieve.
    I wonder if anyone knows SABA's physical address, to which complaints can be addressed? They have an online email address, which I have used already, so far without a reply.

    Many thanks.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,448 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    OMG someone paid.
    I feel there is little likelihood of my brother getting a refund
    Really, despite bargepole's success, and he posts here?

    Your complaint will be ignored. You should complain to the TOC (Train Operating Company) who contracted them.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Yes, my brother received the Penalty Notice by Post notices and I agree with everything you have said about the peremptory way in which this has been dealt with.

    His third letter saying his appeal had been rejected was even more astonishing:

    By law are required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (weblink) provides an alternative resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, the BPA has chosen not to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service'.

    Unbelievable!
  • £25 on a county court claim , I will GUARANTEE they will not want this to go to court
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