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    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 10:02 AM
    • 7Posts
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    SylviaB
    Lease renual issues
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:02 AM
    Lease renual issues 16th Apr 19 at 10:02 AM
    Hi,


    My husband and I currently live in a block of flats (7) where we are all the leaseholders. The lease is being renewed as the original lease states that flats can not be sublet and the new proposed lease will allow subletting.
    Currently, there is at least two of the flats being let out.
    The decision to renew the lease was made over a year ago, with everyone in agreement. It is with the solicitors but there are a select few who have not returned their paperwork thus halting the process.
    One of the said people is also one of the leaseholders who is subletting.
    Basically, I would like to know where we stand and if there is any action we can take as we are in the process of selling and this has already caused us to lose one sale.


    Any advice greatly appreciated.


    Many Thanks
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Apr 19, 10:09 AM
    • 47,795 Posts
    • 58,463 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:09 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:09 AM
    Who is the freeholder and has he agreed to the granting of new leases?


    Neither the freeholder, nor any of the leaeholders, can force another leaseholder to sign a new lease if they either don't want to or can't be bothered. They have a valid lease and don't have to change it.


    Of course, if a leaseholder is breaching their current lease, eg by sub-letting when their lease prohibits this, then the freeholder could enforce the current lease terms and force the leasholder to evict their tenant and stop sub-letting. That might incentivise them to sign a new lease.............
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 10:40 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    SylviaB
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:40 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:40 AM
    its a little bit complicated. all the flat owners are the lease holders, its run as a company where every flat owner is a shareholder.
    the lease was up for renewal as it is now under 90years. everyone has agreed to the changes, obviously is going to benefit the owners who are subletting. but we have lost a sale because of this already. now we are getting to the point where we feel like we need to take legal action against the ones in breach of the current lease to just make them sign it! if this is a possibility at all? or if anyone can give any advice at all??
    • pinkteapot
    • By pinkteapot 16th Apr 19, 10:42 AM
    • 6,358 Posts
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    pinkteapot
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:42 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:42 AM
    Have you been round and had a chat with them?

    It could be that they have an issue with the new lease. It could be that they just don't both reading complex official documents properly and don't realise they need to sign something.
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 10:55 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    SylviaB
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:55 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 10:55 AM
    yes have spoken to them and every time all we get is the sort of 'oh yeah I'm going to do it asap' but still nothing happens....my husband is actually having a mental breakdown over this as its taking over everything for the past year!
    • Simonr66
    • By Simonr66 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    Simonr66
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    Surely not everyone needs to sign the paperwork, if you all own a share in the freehold then all you need is a majority in agreement to make the changes.


    Happy to be corrected
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 2:02 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    SylviaB
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:02 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:02 PM
    well that is what we are being told by the solicitors, that each owner has to sign it.
    Last edited by SylviaB; 16-04-2019 at 2:05 PM.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 16th Apr 19, 2:46 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 932 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:46 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:46 PM
    I just wanted to say I feel your pain, nag nag and smile and nag!

    We are in the same boat, it has taken me 3 years to push it through despite everyone wanting it, and having paid for it! Some leaseholders have had 4 sets of documents, one forgot he had a second charge. We finally started to make headway once I had another leaseholder who is trying to sell so we were both chasing the outstanding paperwork. Unfortunately people don't see the urgency unless it having a direct impact on them.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 16th Apr 19, 3:31 PM
    • 7,678 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 3:31 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 3:31 PM
    Surely not everyone needs to sign the paperwork, if you all own a share in the freehold then all you need is a majority in agreement to make the changes.
    Originally posted by Simonr66
    Every leaseholder's lease probably has to be changed - to allow the other leaseholders in the block to sublet.

    Nobody can force a leaseholder to accept changes to their lease.

    (It doesn't matter if it's a sole freeholder, a majority of the joint freeholders, or 100% of the joint freeholders - they cannot force lease changes on a leaseholder.)

    So even just one leaseholder can block the process.
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 3:46 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    SylviaB
    Thanks for your comments everyone.


    I understand from previous comments that we can't force anyone to sign a new lease (frustrating as this is as it is hindering our sale) so,


    Basically, I just want to know of we can take legal action against the other lease holders who are ALREADY letting their flats knowing they are is in breech of the current lease (current lease doesn't allow subletting) and are just doing it anyway.


    Many thanks
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 16th Apr 19, 3:58 PM
    • 7,678 Posts
    • 7,734 Thanks
    eddddy
    Basically, I just want to know of we can take legal action against the other lease holders who are ALREADY letting their flats knowing they are is in breech of the current lease (current lease doesn't allow subletting) and are just doing it anyway.
    Originally posted by SylviaB
    Yes - typically a lease will allow freeholders to...
    • Write letters to a leaseholder telling them to stop breaching a covenant - and charging the leaseholder a reasonable admin fee for sending a letter
    • Instruct a solicitor - and charge the leaseholder for the solicitor's fees
    • Start court proceedings to forfeit the lease for beach of covenant. i.e. The freeholders could potentially repossess the flat
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 16th Apr 19, 6:51 PM
    • 1,468 Posts
    • 2,299 Thanks
    Slithery
    Surely not everyone needs to sign the paperwork, if you all own a share in the freehold then all you need is a majority in agreement to make the changes.


    Happy to be corrected
    Originally posted by Simonr66
    Where in the OP did it say that the leaseholders own a share of the freehold?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 16th Apr 19, 7:58 PM
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    G_M
    Where in the OP did it say that the leaseholders own a share of the freehold?
    Originally posted by Slithery
    Nowhere. Though the OP did (I supect erronously) state:
    all the flat owners are the lease holders, its run as a company where every flat owner is a shareholder.
    I suspect the OP meant 'the flat owners are the freeholders'. Just a guess!

    Surely not everyone needs to sign the paperwork, if you all own a share in the freehold then all you need is a majority in agreement to make the changes.
    The 'freeholder' ( ie the company in which each flat owner has a share) can probably take the decision to re-issue the leases on a majority vote ( depending on the company's Articles of Association).

    But the 'freeholder' is just one part to each lease. Each individual leaseholder would have to agree to the freeholder's suggestion, and as I said in post 2 above, the leaseholders cannot be forced to change their individual lease.
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 16th Apr 19, 8:48 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    SylviaB
    Thank you for all the comments, I was able to take some advice from this and have composed an email in which I have reminded the ‘guilty’ ones that breaching the lease might have legal consequences, as at the moment more than half of the flats are guilty of this.
    I will be happy to receive any more advice/suggestions.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Apr 19, 11:12 AM
    • 47,795 Posts
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    G_M
    Thank you for all the comments, I was able to take some advice from this and have composed an email in which I have reminded the ‘guilty’ ones that breaching the lease might have legal consequences, as at the moment more than half of the flats are guilty of this.
    I will be happy to receive any more advice/suggestions.
    Originally posted by SylviaB
    In what capacity are you sending the email?


    Given some of the very dubious wording in your posts above(eg confusing 'leaseholders'and 'freeholder'?), it might be wise to get the wording of your email checked before you send it.
    • SylviaB
    • By SylviaB 17th Apr 19, 11:18 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    SylviaB
    Well luckily I didn’t use any wording such as leasehold or freehold in my email. But have used the word legal consequences which worked a treat and this morning I’ve received copies of signed documents.
    Last edited by SylviaB; 17-04-2019 at 11:21 AM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Apr 19, 11:20 AM
    • 47,795 Posts
    • 58,463 Thanks
    G_M
    Oh I feel tons better thanks!


    (to explain, SylviaB's post 16 had a (now deleted) comment of dubious intent........)
    Last edited by G_M; 17-04-2019 at 5:31 PM.
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