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  • FIRST POST
    • parkingmeter
    • By parkingmeter 11th Jan 19, 5:22 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    parkingmeter
    Britannia Parking - DEX MSCP Newcastle BW Legal
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 19, 5:22 PM
    Britannia Parking - DEX MSCP Newcastle BW Legal 11th Jan 19 at 5:22 PM
    Hi, I recently received an LBC from BW Legal about a parking ticket in August.
    I read the newbie thread and found out this car park is notorious for PCNs, there was no parking attendant in the booth and i couldn't find the parking meter at night.

    I requested via email an SAR to which I received these replies:

    Britannia Parking:
    Dear...,

    We have received your Subject Access Request, under ICO guidelines we have one calendar month to respond.

    Please be aware we will send a copy of all personal data we hold only. If you have made a request for any additional information which does not qualify as personal data, please see below.

    YOU’RE REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
    Landowner agreement - You are not entitled to business sensitive information, it will only be supplied at court, as evidence and not before.
    Contract with the driver - The contract is on the signage in the car park. A copy of the signage will be provided as evidence at court.
    Machine reports - You are not entitled to transactions which do not relate to you, you will be provided with your transaction only. We are under no obligation to provide you with anything further.
    Picture packs - A copy of the signage will be provided as evidence at court.
    Your SAR request is free, however please be aware we are able to charge for additional copies and any requests for information we consider to be manifestly unfounded or excessive. ICO guidelines advise we are able to charge a reasonable administration fee, which is £10.

    Please send a cheque payable to Britannia Parking to the following address: Data Protection Officer, County Gates House, 7th Floor, 300 Poole Road, Poole, BH12 1AZ.
    Include a list of the additional information you require and the PCN number/s. Once the cheque has cleared we will action your request. We will only send additional information which is not business sensitive.
    Please refer to the ICO website for further information:
    If you do not wish to pay £10, we are under no obligation to provide you with the information, your only options is to wait until this matter progresses to court, when it will be adduced as evidence.

    Once you are in receipt of your SAR, all additional correspondence regarding the request for additional information will not be responded to, unless payment of £10 is received.

    I then received this email...
    Dear ..,
    Can you please confirm the PCN number, Vehicle registration and your address at the time of the contravention, so I can search our system.
    Currently the only information I have to go by is your surname and the returned results are too large to narrow it down without the extra information.
    Please be aware the one calendar month period to responding to your SAR begins when we receive the additional information.

    I then received a letter from BW Legal stating they will not suspend my account activities in accordance to the SAR.

    I am looking for advice on what the next steps are to take as i have not replied to any of their correspondance as of yet.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Jan 19, 5:35 PM
    • 21,002 Posts
    • 26,381 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 19, 5:35 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 19, 5:35 PM
    there is no charge for a SAR since may 2018 , so they are wrong there, so I hope you emailed their DPO direct and not some catch all email ?

    their DPO can ask for certain data, so give them your name , address , VRM details , pcn ref and any B W LEGAL ref , plus confirm they can use an authorised email address for replies etc (this can be the one you used or one setup by gmail for this specific purpose)- so give them authorisation to use said email

    take a pic or scan of the V5C and add it to the SAR request email , by attachment

    if your address etc were different at the time of the incident, give them those details too


    the idea is to give them enough info to process the free SAR, but not phone numbers or shoe size or maiden name etc

    they are only required to give you YOUR data, not pics of signage or landowner details etc

    the LBC REBUTTAL to B W LEGAL can ask for that other info under the PaP nov 2017 rules , so do not confuse the 2 legal parameters
    Last edited by Redx; 11-01-2019 at 5:37 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Jan 19, 5:36 PM
    • 10,084 Posts
    • 13,289 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 19, 5:36 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 19, 5:36 PM
    Second one like this we have seen today ???

    information we consider to be manifestly unfounded or excessive. ICO guidelines advise we are able to charge a reasonable administration fee, which is £10.

    This seems to be a new wheeze by Britannia.

    "manifestly unfounded or excessive."

    One could politely say ... What a load of rubbish"

    Complain to the ICO as they are knowingly obstructing you for a reward

    As far as BWLegal is concerned and the LBC. How can you respond when their client is being obstructive and if the information requested is not received and it goes to court, you will advise the court of the same and request the case is dismissed
    Last edited by beamerguy; 11-01-2019 at 5:41 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jan 19, 6:15 PM
    • 11,443 Posts
    • 11,498 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 19, 6:15 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 19, 6:15 PM
    Take the matter up with your MP.

    It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

    Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 2:28 AM
    • 65,507 Posts
    • 78,062 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 2:28 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 19, 2:28 AM
    Like I posted on the other thread, this is NOT refusing the SAR and nor is is trying to charge £10 for the personal data...

    It is simply that the OP has not used the recommended SAR template from Legal Beagles (NEWBIES thread gives the link) and has asked for too much.

    Of course they *could* charge for that because anything above personal data is excessive.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Parkingticket
    • By Parkingticket 12th Jan 19, 9:34 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Parkingticket
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:34 AM
    £10 admin fee for SAR
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 19, 9:34 AM
    I am in the same position - have ignored all letters thus far and have received a bcn from bw legal and therefore requested sar as per legal beagles on the newbies thread and have had the same letter back from bw legal stating they require a £10 admin fee and once received will process my request.
    My question is do i pay the £10 or wait until i recieve a court date and THEN pay the admin fee to gain sar info?
    Really appreciate any advice. Also do i start a new thread now or wait until i get a court date?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Jan 19, 10:02 AM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 86,321 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:02 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:02 AM
    The ICO has said that charging for an SAR is only acceptable where a lot of work will be required such as multiple emails/documents need to be checked, or over a long period of several years.

    Asking for data relating to a simple parking charge does not fall under this remit.

    Britannia should therefore be reported to the ICO for every instance where they have asked for the motorist to pay £10 to get their data.

    I'll try and dig out my notes about this.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    • 10,084 Posts
    • 13,289 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    I am in the same position - have ignored all letters thus far and have received a bcn from bw legal and therefore requested sar as per legal beagles on the newbies thread and have had the same letter back from bw legal stating they require a £10 admin fee and once received will process my request.
    My question is do i pay the £10 or wait until i recieve a court date and THEN pay the admin fee to gain sar info?
    Really appreciate any advice. Also do i start a new thread now or wait until i get a court date?
    Originally posted by Parkingticket
    Have you asked for the information more than once ??

    A SAR is a legal method to obtain information regarding the claim they make but not providing full information.
    I imagine the £10 charge is the brain wave of BWLegal passed on to the parking companes.
    Is the SAR excessive ? Only the ICO can determine that.

    It is my view that this £10 is firstly designed as a deterrent and knowingly being obstructive to profit for gain

    Using bullet points please list what you asked for in your SAR
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Jan 19, 10:40 AM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 86,321 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:40 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 19, 10:40 AM
    DSFP started this £10 wheeze for the car park they mismanage in Instow, Devon. The local Fakebook fightback group complained to the ICO who said it was unreasonable. I'm waiting for a message back from the fightback Supreme Being, who has also had wins against PE at PoPLA and ES Parking Solutions in in Court, about the exact words the ICO used.

    The Instow scammer is no longer asking for the £10 charge, and has been reprimanded for using the ICO logo on his accredited page.

    Parkingticket, you need to start your own thread as soon as you need to ask questions on the forum.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 12-01-2019 at 10:44 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 12:51 PM
    • 65,507 Posts
    • 78,062 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Can we stop threads about this non-issue, it seems to me?

    Britannia do not need reporting to the ICO for wanting to charge £10 for people who ask for more than just their data.

    People should not be asking for a whole list of rubbish that doesn't fall under the GDPR. It would be unacceptable if Britannia was trying to charge £10 for a SAR, but they are not. The 2 threads we've seen are about cases where people have asked for a whole list of stuff, or repeated a SAR request already supplied.

    It's why the NEWBIES thread suggests people use the Legal Beagles SAR template.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jan 19, 1:13 PM
    • 10,084 Posts
    • 13,289 Thanks
    beamerguy
    C-m ....... we need to know what the ICO find acceptable for a SAR
    otherwise this lot will make £10 a standard charge simply by saying it's "excessive"
    Let's face it, they are not liking being sent a SAR

    Hopefully, fruitcake above will get an answer for us.

    In the meanwhile people should continue sending reasonable SAR requests and lets see if there is a pattern building
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 12th Jan 19, 2:49 PM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,708 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Problem is, I think that the link to the Legal Beagles template letter says you should ask: -
    Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.
    But the NEWBIE then goes on to state you should: -
    Ask for (as a minimum):

    - ALL photos taken
    - a close up of the signs on the day in question
    - evidence that they have paid a debt collector, if they are trying to add £60 per PCN (they can't do that but will if YOU let them)
    - all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
    - if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this and follow it up if they refuse). You want the PDT machine record if it;s an PDT machine car park.
    - all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
    - and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs in one claim, not several separate claims.
    Clearly some of that is personal data and some is not, which is probably why Britannia are asking for a fee as Legal Beagles goes on to state: -
    It can only charge a fee if it thinks the request is ‘manifestly unfounded or excessive’. If so, it may ask for a reasonable fee for administrative costs associated with the request.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jan 19, 3:22 PM
    • 10,084 Posts
    • 13,289 Thanks
    beamerguy
    It can only charge a fee if it thinks the request is ‘manifestly unfounded or excessive’.

    One man's meat, another man's poison ???

    Watch this become the norm from this scam industry.

    It is open to abuse from these people and they will make full use of it, hence an opportunity to find out what is considered a fair and reasonable request for free information
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 19, 9:00 PM
    • 65,507 Posts
    • 78,062 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    But the NEWBIE then goes on to state you should: -

    Ask for (as a minimum):

    - ALL photos taken
    - a close up of the signs on the day in question
    - evidence that they have paid a debt collector, if they are trying to add £60 per PCN (they can't do that but will if YOU let them)
    - all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
    - if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this and follow it up if they refuse). You want the PDT machine record if it's an PDT machine car park.
    - all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
    - and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs in one claim, not several separate claims.
    Clearly some of that is personal data and some is not, which is probably why Britannia are asking for a fee
    Good point.

    But the only non-data thing there is the signage, IMHO, and that's not an excessive thing to ask for. Even 'all evidence you will rely on' must surely be data held (except for the signage pics, but it's perfectly reasonable to expect to see the contract on the sign). Note that it doesn't ask for the landowner contract because that' not personal data and we know it won't be disclosed until WS stage.

    So if people issued that list I would say B are wrong to ask for £10.

    But if people sent a list as long as your arm including the landowner contract, then it could be considered excessive.

    I was mainly thinking of the thread where the person was up in arms about being asked for £10 where in fact B were only asking for it because it was duplicate info. There was no need for that OP to do anything.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 10:20 AM
    • 3,681 Posts
    • 2,708 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    But the only non-data thing there is the signage, IMHO, and that's not an excessive thing to ask for. Even 'all evidence you will rely on' must surely be data held (except for the signage pics, but it's perfectly reasonable to expect to see the contract on the sign). Note that it doesn't ask for the landowner contract because that' not personal data and we know it won't be disclosed until WS stage.
    Understood, which is why I said to the OP (I think it was in this thread) to go for it. So long as Britannia do not use it as a delaying tactic to refuse to supply the data they must, by law, supply.
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