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    • JSmith321
    • By JSmith321 6th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    • 13Posts
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    JSmith321
    Warm Home Discount Criteria
    • #1
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    Warm Home Discount Criteria 6th Nov 18 at 10:03 AM
    Does anyone know why different suppliers have different criteria for the "Warm Home Discount". I'm a full time carer on low income supporting an elderly mother who receives attendance allowance. EDF says I don't qualify but First Utility says I do. The government provide a list of suppliers along with their conditions. https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/energy-suppliers
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 6th Nov 18, 10:08 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:08 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:08 AM
    From the Ofgem Website:

    Am I eligible for the Warm Home Discount rebate?

    To be eligible for the £140 WHD rebate you must first buy your energy from a participating energy supplier and meet the eligibility criteria for the Core Group or Broader Group elements of the scheme. Not all energy suppliers are part of the WHD scheme.

    You may be able to benefit under the Industry Initiative element of the scheme even if you donít buy your energy from a participating supplier, since these tend to target wider groups of fuel poor consumers. You can speak to any obligated energy supplier about the Industry Initiatives they offer, you do not have to buy your energy from them.

    We have outlined the eligibility requirements for each aspect of the scheme below. However, please note that list is non-exhaustive, and you should consult our WHD guidance for further detail on eligibility requirements.

    What is the Core Group?

    The Core Group is an element of the WHD scheme intended to support some pensioners, through a direct annual rebate of £140 to their electricity or gas accounts.

    You are eligible for the rebate in scheme year 7 (June 2017 - March 2018) if on the 9th July 2017 the following applied:

    Your energy supplier is a participating compulsory or voluntary supplier,
    You or your partnerís name is on the energy bill, and
    You receive the Guarantee Credit element of Pension Credit.
    Most customers identified as eligible for the Core Group rebate receive this automatically as a result of a data matching exercise between energy suppliers and the Department for Work and Pensions.

    If you qualify for the WHD under the Core Group you will get a letter in the autumn or winter telling you either:

    That you donít have to apply - youíll get the discount automatically, or
    To apply by 31 January 2018 - the letter will tell you why and how.
    You would have received your letter by 30 November 2017 at the latest.

    What if I donít get a letter but believe I am eligible under the Core Group?

    The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) administers the Core Group element of WHD, along with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). You can contact the Warm Home Discount Team if you donít get a letter but believe you qualify. You can also contact them if you want further information about the scheme, using the details below:

    Warm Home Discount Scheme

    Telephone: 0345 603 9439

    Monday to Friday, 8:30am to 4:30pm

    Find out about call charges

    Warm Home Discount Team

    2.1.P

    Peel Park

    Brunel Way

    Blackpool

    FY4 5ES

    What is the Broader Group?

    Compulsory suppliers also have their own schemes to provide £140 rebates to customers who are in or at risk of fuel poverty. This is provided under the Broader Group element of the WHD scheme.

    Customers must apply directly to obligated energy suppliers to get the rebate, with suppliers often publishing on their website details of how to apply over the summer months.

    The eligibility criteria for benefitting under the Broader Group are set out in the relevant legislation and in our scheme guidance. Examples of applicable criteria include being:

    in receipt of Universal Credit, or in work or self- employed and on a total household annual income of less than £16,190 and one of the following applies:
    in receipt of limited capability for work element, with or without a work-related activity element;
    in receipt of disabled child element; or
    responsible for a child under the age of 5 who ordinarily resides with you.
    The eligibility criteria listed here is non-exhaustive. Please find the full criteria in our scheme guidance.

    Participating compulsory suppliers have some discretion to vary the eligibility criteria to address their specific customer base, so we would advise contacting your energy supplier directly to find out if you are eligible to receive the rebate.

    Energy suppliers who voluntarily participate in the Warm Home Discount scheme do not provide Broader Group rebates.

    Receiving the Broader Group rebate one year does not guarantee youíll receive it in the future. Many suppliers operate a first-come first-served approach to paying their Broader Group rebates, and an energy supplierís eligible customers under the Broader Group may exceed the number of rebates they are required to deliver.
    Last edited by Hengus; 06-11-2018 at 10:13 AM.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 6th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    • 3,893 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    It's also probably worth a mention that for people to get WHD everyone's energy costs more to fund it, even those who get WHD.

    It's a funny old world
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 6th Nov 18, 11:54 AM
    • 4,000 Posts
    • 1,070 Thanks
    Anthorn
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 11:54 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 11:54 AM
    Does anyone know why different suppliers have different criteria for the "Warm Home Discount". I'm a full time carer on low income supporting an elderly mother who receives attendance allowance. EDF says I don't qualify but First Utility says I do. The government provide a list of suppliers along with their conditions. https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/energy-suppliers
    Originally posted by JSmith321
    The short answer is that for the broader group (you have to apply for it) energy companies make their own rules for eligibility and/or even for payment. The long answer is in the link below:
    https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme/low-income
    • JSmith321
    • By JSmith321 7th Nov 18, 9:16 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JSmith321
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 18, 9:16 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Nov 18, 9:16 AM
    Thanks for that - looks like I'll have to leave EDF.
    • macman
    • By macman 7th Nov 18, 3:06 PM
    • 42,788 Posts
    • 18,035 Thanks
    macman
    • #6
    • 7th Nov 18, 3:06 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Nov 18, 3:06 PM
    What matters is the total annual cost (with the WHD factored in, if available). If you are currently on EDF SVT (you didn't state your tariff) then any good fix would save you far more than the £140 WHD.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • welshmoneylover
    • By welshmoneylover 7th Nov 18, 6:25 PM
    • 2,796 Posts
    • 3,671 Thanks
    welshmoneylover
    • #7
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:25 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Nov 18, 6:25 PM
    It’s about time they done away with the WHD.
    Surely this causes everyone else’s bill to be higher to pay for it?
    Be happy, it's the greatest wealth
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 7th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    • 6,418 Posts
    • 4,820 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    • #8
    • 7th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Nov 18, 8:30 PM
    Itís about time they done away with the WHD.
    Surely this causes everyone elseís bill to be higher to pay for it?
    Originally posted by welshmoneylover
    ONS

    In the 2016 to 2017 winter period, there were an estimated 34,300 excess winter deaths (EWDs) in England and Wales, which represents an excess winter mortality (EWM) index of 20.9%.

    Although there has been an increase in EWDs, the number of EWDs does not exceed the peak that was observed in the 2014 to 2015 winter period; however, it was the second highest over the last five winter periods.

    Females and the elderly were most affected by excess winter mortality in the 2016 to 2017 winter period.

    Over one-third of all excess winter deaths were caused by respiratory diseases in England and Wales in 2016 to 2017.

    All of the English regions observed significant increases in the excess winter mortality index between winter periods 2015 to 2016 and 2016 to 2017, whereas excess winter mortality for Wales remained stable.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • PennineAcute
    • By PennineAcute 7th Nov 18, 8:37 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    PennineAcute
    • #9
    • 7th Nov 18, 8:37 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Nov 18, 8:37 PM
    Obviously, you have never had to decide between heat and eat.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 8th Nov 18, 12:45 PM
    • 4,000 Posts
    • 1,070 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Thanks for that - looks like I'll have to leave EDF.
    Originally posted by JSmith321
    With suppliers making their own rules for the Broader Group it is something of a minefield particularly if you don't take notice of the additional notes found on comparison sites such as MSE CEC and uSwitch. For example Bristol Energy only provides WHD for the Core Group (you receive the guarantee element of Pension credit) but not for the Broader group because it is a voluntary supplier.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 08-11-2018 at 1:04 PM.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 8th Nov 18, 2:54 PM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    With suppliers making their own rules for the Broader Group it is something of a minefield particularly if you don't take notice of the additional notes found on comparison sites such as MSE CEC and uSwitch. For example Bristol Energy only provides WHD for the Core Group (you receive the guarantee element of Pension credit) but not for the Broader group because it is a voluntary supplier.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    The dilemma for all suppliers is do they stay at 249,999 customers or push past the 250,000 customer figure. The latter has the downside of additional WHD costs for the core group which puts up their energy prices. The 'broader group' adds further pressures and if you are a supplier which reported a loss last year of £8.4M, it is probably something of a no brainer.

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-energy-running-84million-loss-1132124
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 8th Nov 18, 4:42 PM
    • 6,418 Posts
    • 4,820 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Rules are changing Hengus 2019-2021 those with 150,000 (not 250k) customer accounts will have to take part in the scheme as I understand it.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 8th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
    • 3,893 Posts
    • 2,452 Thanks
    matelodave
    I cannot help think that if it wasn't for all the subsidies that keep getting chucked around then all our energy cost would be lower and we'd all be a bit better off rather than keep trying to transfer money by devious means.

    TBH it would be better if I was allocated a needy person in my neighbourhood and I just paid all his bills rather than having all the middle men (taxman, DWP, Energy co etc) taking an extra cut to redistribute it. Better still they could just come and live with me and save me paying the rent allowance on another property somewhere.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 8th Nov 18, 6:03 PM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    Rules are changing Hengus 2019-2021 those with 150,000 (not 250k) customer accounts will have to take part in the scheme as I understand it.
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro
    Indeed they are: 200,000 customers for 2019/20 falling to 150000 customers a year later. Thanks for pointing that out.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 9th Nov 18, 9:31 AM
    • 4,000 Posts
    • 1,070 Thanks
    Anthorn
    I cannot help think that if it wasn't for all the subsidies that keep getting chucked around then all our energy cost would be lower and we'd all be a bit better off rather than keep trying to transfer money by devious means.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    So therefore do we just allow for example old age pensioners on pension credit who cannot afford the ever increasing energy prices to simply die of cold? Then there are the children of parents who are on means-tested benefit: Do we allow them to go hungry? Well, I supposed that's ok if you can get your energy a few pennies cheaper!

    Looking back, there were at one time cheaper tariffs for vulnerable people which not all suppliers provided and which have now disappeared in the light of warm home discount. In my view the current WHD is a better system and easier to implement which in turn saves money on administration costs.

    However the fact that energy suppliers have to be forced to help vulnerable customers says a lot about them!
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 9th Nov 18, 9:38 AM
    • 6,557 Posts
    • 4,207 Thanks
    Hengus
    So therefore do we just allow for example old age pensioners on pension credit who cannot afford the ever increasing energy prices to simply die of cold? Then there are the children of parents who are on means-tested benefit: Do we allow them to go hungry? Well, I supposed that's ok if you can get your energy a few pennies cheaper!

    Looking back, there were at one time cheaper tariffs for vulnerable people which not all suppliers provided and which have now disappeared in the light of warm home discount. In my view the current WHD is a better system and easier to implement which in turn saves money on administration costs.

    However the fact that energy suppliers have to be forced to help vulnerable customers says a lot about them!
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    You have a valid point. The Big 5 energy suppliers have long argued that new entrants are at a competitive advantage over them because paying the WHD is dependent on customer numbers. They have a point which is probably why Ofgem is reducing the WHD starting level.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 9th Nov 18, 10:41 AM
    • 4,000 Posts
    • 1,070 Thanks
    Anthorn
    You have a valid point. The Big 5 energy suppliers have long argued that new entrants are at a competitive advantage over them because paying the WHD is dependent on customer numbers. They have a point which is probably why Ofgem is reducing the WHD starting level.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    We might equally argue that those energy suppliers which offer warm home discount will scoop more customers at the expense of those suppliers which don't offer it. Whether this in itself means that the energy companies which provide WHD do so at a loss is unclear: To operate at a total loss those customers who get WHD would have to spend £140 or less on electricity per year.

    Anyway here's a link on that reduction to 150,000 customers:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/households-with-smaller-energy-suppliers-to-benefit-from-140-warm-home-discount-on-their-energy-bills
    Last edited by Anthorn; 09-11-2018 at 10:44 AM.
    • chuckie851
    • By chuckie851 9th Nov 18, 3:05 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    chuckie851
    My only income is State Pension, and that's currently about £3 per week higher than Pension Credit. Npower just told me that I won't be eligible for the broader group, even though I receive Council Tax Reduction. Has anyone else on the new State Pension been given the same answer?
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 9th Nov 18, 6:27 PM
    • 6,418 Posts
    • 4,820 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    My only income is State Pension, and that's currently about £3 per week higher than Pension Credit. Npower just told me that I won't be eligible for the broader group, even though I receive Council Tax Reduction. Has anyone else on the new State Pension been given the same answer?
    Originally posted by chuckie851
    Not relevant to you Chuckie.

    Broader are 1st come (lottery) 1st served. (1) getting in the front of the cue (2) when your individual supplier opens the list) is what is needed first - and only then the qualifying criteria. Best of luck.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Lockardian
    • By Lockardian 9th Nov 18, 9:14 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lockardian
    I live with my dad, and he appears to qualify for WHD as a member of the “broader group”, so I applied to British Gas on his behalf some time ago.

    We are considering changing some of the household bills into my name as he is signing the house over to me. However, if the energy bill is changed to my name, will this mean my dad no longer qualifies for WHD? I’m not sure if British Gas allow joint names on accounts.

    I assume Winter Fuel and Cold Weather payments are unaffected and you don’t have to be named on your household’s energy bill to qualify.
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