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  • FIRST POST
    • Eastender
    • By Eastender 12th Oct 18, 2:09 PM
    • 125Posts
    • 14Thanks
    Eastender
    private land parking fine - help needed.
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 18, 2:09 PM
    private land parking fine - help needed. 12th Oct 18 at 2:09 PM
    Hello folks,

    Been going fairly regularly to a leisure center in London to play Badminton and there they introduced parking charge for up to 3 hours for a £1 pound about two years ago. We were told by leisure center reception staff that we can pay for the parking after our Badminton session, which is in the morning but has to be paid on the day. I have been doing that for the last two years without incurring any fines.

    However, two months ago I received a fine through the post that they have a video evidence that I entered the car park of the leisure center and did not pay. I appealed and gave the evidence that I paid on exit and provided the evidence, as I registered on their website when I pay for the parking, which is Whoosh. They cancelled the fine.

    Later I received another fine through the post again for another parking. I again appealed but received a reply today that they're not cancelling the fine as I did not pay first, according to their T&C, though they acknowledged, I did pay on the day and did not exceed my stay. They mention on the letter that I can appeal to POPLA but if I lose my appeal, then the full charge of £100 is payable!

    I am baffled by this. If they want customers to pay first when they park, then why did they cancel my earlier fine? Also for the last two years I have been paying on exit and they did not bother to fine me. Do I have strong case when I appeal to POPLA?
Page 1
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 12th Oct 18, 2:18 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 2:18 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 18, 2:18 PM
    I'm a bit of a 'newbie' to the wonderful world of parking charges myself but I'm pretty sure a strong, very strong, complaint to the landowner has an excellent chance of success in this instance. Assuming the car park is owned or leased by the Leisure Centre, you have years of customer loyalty to cite!

    It all sounds absolutely barking. Ask to talk to the most senior person in the building and politely demand that they get this charge (it's not a fine - it's an invoice) cancelled ASAP. That is well within their remit. If they say they can't do it, don't believe them but press on!

    Have you taken any action so far? You need to state the name of the parking company for maximum input.
    • Eastender
    • By Eastender 12th Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    • 125 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Eastender
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:29 PM
    The name of the company as I mentioned, is Whoosh. I'm going to speak to the Leisure centre, who might wash their hands.
    Last edited by Eastender; 12-10-2018 at 10:42 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 18, 10:38 PM
    • 19,613 Posts
    • 24,916 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:38 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:38 PM
    The name of the company as I mentioned, is Whoosh. I'm going to speak to the Leisure centre, who might wash their hands.

    if I ignore it what can they do?
    Originally posted by Eastender

    the name of the PARKING COMPANY (PPC) is definitely not WHOOSH

    IF YOU IGNORE IT the PPC can issue an MCOL with Northampton CCBC and take you to small claims court (civil court) to try to enforce their invoice

    they have 6 years to do this
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 12th Oct 18, 10:44 PM
    • 3,228 Posts
    • 4,988 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:44 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 18, 10:44 PM
    The name of the company as I mentioned, is Whoosh. I'm going to speak to the Leisure centre, who might wash their hands.

    if I ignore it what can they do?
    Originally posted by Eastender
    But "whoosh" is a payment system they didn't issue the parking charge did they?

    Have you read the nrwbies thread on here yet?
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 13th Oct 18, 9:51 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:51 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 18, 9:51 AM
    The name of the company as I mentioned, is Whoosh. I'm going to speak to the Leisure centre, who might wash their hands.
    Originally posted by Eastender
    Why might they wash their hands? The Leisure Centre has allowed a parking company to instigate an absolutely insane 'system' in their car park which traps and tries to extort money out of loyal, extremely loyal, customers who are doing their damndest to pay for parking. And to top it all they have given you misleading information!

    Unless I'm missing something.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 13-10-2018 at 9:55 AM.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 13th Oct 18, 10:08 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:08 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:08 AM
    The name of the parking company should be on the PCN you've received. It should also be on the car park signage though on an example I've seen online it is in quite small lettering.

    You say you've appealed .... so presumably you did appeal to the parking company? Because you cannot appeal to Whoosh.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 13-10-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 13th Oct 18, 10:57 AM
    • 10,619 Posts
    • 9,976 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:57 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 18, 10:57 AM
    The leisure centre will need to take ownership of this. If they have been accepting post-payment and issuing receipts, then they have been condoning the practice. They appoint the PPC and must instruct them to cancel charge.

    Obviously from now on you should pay up front and the reception should refuse post payments unless they change the system with the PPC.

    Don't hang around on this, but get the leisure centremanager to act pointing out their complicity in this.
    • Eastender
    • By Eastender 13th Oct 18, 11:34 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Eastender
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:34 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 18, 11:34 AM
    yes, I think the payment system is Whoosh but the parking company name is PCL - Parking Charge Ltd. and it says I can appeal to POPLA.

    I don't understand, as I mentioned, all these months they had accepted parking on exit and now suddenly they show they state their T&C and issue me a fine that I did not pay on arrival.

    Though I paid for the duration of my stay but did not pay up front, but we're told in the past by the Leisure Centre reception that we can pay later, after our activities but had to pay on the same day.

    I will approach the Leisure centre but I'm not too hopeful and I don't go there now often. I have to prepare for the POPLA appeal.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 13th Oct 18, 11:47 AM
    • 10,619 Posts
    • 9,976 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    You will fail POPLA as they take a very limited view of things. They look at "the contract" you have with the PPC and if it says pay first, then the fact that the leisure centre have allowed a variation on this in the past is irrelevant.

    Your best bet is involving the leisure centre, threatening to bring it to the attention of the local press (and Daily Mail!) - even better if there are more of you who have been hit.

    If all that fails, I have given you the argument you can use to win in court as long as you can support this with paperwork and, hopefully, other gym members.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 13th Oct 18, 11:48 AM
    • 2,811 Posts
    • 3,541 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    "I don't understand, as I mentioned, all these months they had accepted parking on exit and now suddenly they show they state their T&C and issue me a fine that I did not pay on arrival."


    that is because you live in the real world .... and not the unregulated world of 'private parking'



    a read watch of the below will better help you to understand such.







    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    and slightly longer, the committee stage

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d5550515-cce9-4185-83ec-754dadb7524a

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    and some quotes from the committe stage

    "The other area is hospital parking, and I want to single out one company for some pretty shady practices. That is ParkingEye"
    " is very clear to me that there is collusion between parking companies and solicitors’ firms—so-called roboclaims companies. "
    "They are often set up adjacently and involve the same directors and personnel. Incidentally, the same personnel get involved in the so-called appeals bodies."
    "Essentially, it is a money-making enterprise that takes advantage of motorists up and down the country. They operate in a very business-like fashion, which is why I call them roboclaims companies."
    "The companies are jamming up parts of our legal system."
    “I now pretty much know exactly how the parking companies and in particular the IPC have been running this scam for the past 5 years. Basically both of the appeals processes are a complete and utter sham, (and part of that sham is Gladstones Solicitors itself)”
    "The appeals process at Excel/VCS is run by a team of minimum wage office workers with no legal knowledge or experience whatsoever,"
    " It is claimed by the head of the appeals service (retired Judge Bryn Holloway) that this is a completely independent fair process, it is not”
    "The letter mentions two individuals—Will Hurley and Bryn Holloway—and concludes this is a typical example of the clear collusion between the IPC, their members and the IAS"
    "what we can do about roboclaims companies and solicitors firms that profit, often in shady ways"
    " the very large amounts of money that can be involved in such scams—a company called Smart Parking was involved in one such scam on my patch"
    "tightening up the rules regarding the unfair use of automatic number plate recognition" "BW Legal, regularly issues 10,000 county court judgments a month, and is known to have issued 28,000 in one month"
    "They are jamming up our court system, and are often totally unjustified."
    " because the lifeblood of trying to extort money from people is having access to their details."

    All from Parking (Code of Practice) Bill (First sitting) Hansard








    "I will approach the Leisure centre but I'm not too hopeful and I don't go there now often."


    you will have to be polite ... but forceful .... let the manager know all about what MPs's think .... if he still refuses then inform him/her that if it gets to court then they will become involved.



    do you have written ....


    " I again appealed but received a reply today that they're not cancelling the fine as I did not pay first, according to their T&C, though they acknowledged, I did pay on the day and did not exceed my stay." ?




    Ralph
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Oct 18, 11:50 PM
    • 19,613 Posts
    • 24,916 Thanks
    Redx
    so the PPC is PCL , a BPA member


    cant see them listed in this whoosh list , but will assume that you are correct


    https://www.whooshstore.co.uk/locations/


    you have been given the best advice on this already, now that we know who the PPC is


    my advice is to comply with what PCL require from now on, dont assume that the GYM know best, they rarely do
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 14th Oct 18, 9:04 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    I was curious .... there's only one sporty place on the list and their website shows a Whoosh car park sign. It states in very small letters that the car park is run by Parking Charge Ltd. even though they are not the company named on the list.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 14th Oct 18, 9:14 AM
    • 3,663 Posts
    • 5,987 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Can you get a pic of the sign and post it up so we can see the exact wording.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 14th Oct 18, 10:33 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    http://www.rslonline.co.uk/parking/

    Is this the place, Eastender?
    • Eastender
    • By Eastender 14th Oct 18, 11:00 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Eastender
    http://www.rslonline.co.uk/parking/

    Is this the place, Eastender?
    Originally posted by MistyZ
    Yes. That's the one.

    For over a year, they had accepted 'pay on exit' without incurring any fines, but now they want to apply their terms and conditions, so where was the T&C before?,

    It was the same as now, but they had decided not to enforce it, until now.

    Will speak to the Centre manager.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Oct 18, 11:36 AM
    • 19,755 Posts
    • 31,219 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Parking Charge Ltd. Their name says it all. Small fry outfit owned by a South African who resides in Israel (keeping his head down?). His co-director (his father?) is a British Doctor, no doubt understandably having to supplement his meagre Dr's £100k salary by causing misery and anxiety in order to press people into giving him money.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09465654/officers

    Have never 'done court'.

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Parking_Charge.html
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Oct 18, 11:59 AM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,691 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Mr Hyde I see, is the doctor Dr. Jekyll
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 14th Oct 18, 3:04 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 134 Thanks
    MistyZ
    [QUOTE Will speak to the Centre manager.[/QUOTE]

    Go for it Eastender. If you're made to feel that there was human error on the car side of things, don't let that deter you. This whole set-up seems designed to confuse people.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 14-10-2018 at 3:09 PM.
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