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  • FIRST POST
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 28th Sep 18, 10:25 PM
    • 61Posts
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    shuandrew
    Can I haggle on this Howdens kitchen quote? If so, how?
    • #1
    • 28th Sep 18, 10:25 PM
    Can I haggle on this Howdens kitchen quote? If so, how? 28th Sep 18 at 10:25 PM
    Hi all,


    Has anyone had luck haggling down the price of a Howdens kitchen around the October sales period?

    We are looking to buy a new integrated kitchen.

    A friend recommended a builder who has an account with Howdens, who have now supplied two quotes: one "normal" trade price, and another with the builder's discount and the October sale discount price combined.

    For Clerkenwell Gloss White cabinets, the total (not including main appliances, which we will probably buy elsewhere) came to:

    Normal trade price:
    £4681.20 (including VAT)

    Discounted price
    £3,543.48 (including VAT)

    A £1,137.72 saving, or 32% off.

    I have included a full breakdown below. Sorry the formatting is bad, I couldn't get tables to work.

    A quote at IKEA with the same cabinets seems to be quite a bit more expensive.

    So I'm wondering if the above quote seems reasonable, or if I should be pushing for more? If so, how much? And what is the best way to go about it when I meet the Howdens salesperson, or talk to my builder?

    This is my first time buying a kitchen, so quite clueless tbh. Thanks for any advice!


    Full Breakdowns

    Item Normal Price
    Clerk Gls White 450 Hi-Line Dishwasher Door 89.10
    Clerk GLs White 1000 CC Hi-Line Cnr Base - 600 Door White Cab 186.30
    800/1000 Base Blanking Panel 23.90
    Clerk GLs White 600 Hi-Line App Door 89.10
    Clerk Gls White 400 Pre-fit Standard Soft Close 4 Dwr Base Cab 165.00
    Silver Standard Cutlery Tray 400mm 16.50
    Clerk Gls White 600 Built Under Oven Housing Base White Cab 98.10
    Clerk Gls White 931 C Hi-Line Cnr Shelf Service Void Base White Cab 303.00
    Clerk Gls White 1000 CC Hi-Line Base White Cab 190.20
    Clerk Gls White 600 50/50 Fridge Freezer Twr White Cab 287.70
    Clerk Gls White 600 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 112.80
    Clerk Gls White 400 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 97.70
    Clerk Gls White 500 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 96.00
    Clerk Gls White 500 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 96.00
    Clerk Gls White 631 CC Full Height Cnr Wall White Cab 111.60
    Clerk Gls White 300 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 84.60
    Clerk Gls White 1000 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 162.30
    Clerk Gls White 30mm Cornice/Pelmet Square Profile 2.4m 235.50
    Clerk Gls White Continuous Plinth 2.75m 112.50
    Clerk Gls White 910 Base D!cor End 55.20
    Clerk Gls White 752 Full Height Wall D!cor End 144.00
    Clerk Gls White 2130 Twr D!cor End 369.90
    Clerk Gls White Edging Pack 5.82
    Lamona Chrome Rienza Swan Neck Monobloc Tap 85.60
    Grey Concrete Effect Square Edged Worktop 3m 38mm 512.40
    Stone Grey Worktop Jointing Compound 22.80
    Standard Worktop Connecting Bolt 8.94
    Grey Concrete Effect Worktop Edging Strip 5m 38mm 34.40
    Grey Concrete Effect Worktop Upstand 3m 104.40
    TOTAL 3901.36 (excluding VAT)

    -----------

    Item Trade Price
    Clerk Gls White 450 Hi-Line Dishwasher Door 68.31
    Clerk GLs White 1000 CC Hi-Line Cnr Base - 600 Door White Cab 142.83
    800/1000 Base Blanking Panel 23.9
    Clerk GLs White 600 Hi-Line App Door 68.31
    Clerk Gls White 400 Pre-fit Standard Soft Close 4 Dwr Base Cab 126.5
    Silver Standard Cutlery Tray 400mm 16.5
    Clerk Gls White 600 Built Under Oven Housing Base White Cab 75.21
    Clerk Gls White 931 C Hi-Line Cnr Shelf Service Void Base White Cab 232.3
    Clerk Gls White 1000 CC Hi-Line Base White Cab 145.82
    Clerk Gls White 600 50/50 Fridge Freezer Twr White Cab 220.57
    Clerk Gls White 600 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 86.48
    Clerk Gls White 400 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 71.07
    Clerk Gls White 500 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 73.6
    Clerk Gls White 500 CC Full Height Wall White Cap 73.6
    Clerk Gls White 631 CC Full Height Cnr Wall White Cab 85.56
    Clerk Gls White 300 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 64.86
    Clerk Gls White 1000 CC Full Height Wall White Cab 124.43
    Clerk Gls White 30mm Cornice/Pelmet Square Profile 2.4m 117.75
    Clerk Gls White Continuous Plinth 2.75m 75
    Clerk Gls White 910 Base D!cor End 36.8
    Clerk Gls White 752 Full Height Wall D!cor End 96
    Clerk Gls White 2130 Twr D!cor End 246.6
    Clerk Gls White Edging Pack 4.46
    Lamona Chrome Rienza Swan Neck Monobloc Tap 74.9
    Grey Concrete Effect Square Edged Worktop 3m 38mm 448.35
    Stone Grey Worktop Jointing Compound 22.8
    Standard Worktop Connecting Bolt 8.94
    Grey Concrete Effect Worktop Edging Strip 5m 38mm 30.1
    Grey Concrete Effect Worktop Upstand 3m 91.35
    TOTAL £2,952.90 (excluding VAT)
Page 1
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 29th Sep 18, 9:09 AM
    • 26,130 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 18, 9:09 AM
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 18, 9:09 AM
    You need to look at the actual % discount on each item on the quote. It could vary between 60-90%.

    I don't recognise those as a normal Howdens quote as a RRP for one unit is about a million pounds, with varying % discounts making the price more reasonable.

    What you've been handed doesn't look right to me. There's no need to give you two prices 'before and after'. The trade discount is the trade discount to that person on the day. You don't compare discounts on another trade price invoice, you compare against "RRP".

    If Ikea are more expensive, I'm astounded, but someone is also saying that their DIY Kitchens quite is also more expensive even with what I think is a poor Howdens 'discount' of 65%.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 29th Sep 18, 10:48 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:48 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:48 AM
    Hi Doozergirl,

    Thank you for your reply.

    The actual percentage discount on each item between the two quotes I have given varies between 13% and 33%, no where near 60-90%.

    13% on the worktop and taps.
    23% on the units.
    33% on the decor ends.

    There is no mention of the RRP prices on either quote, nor the discounted percentages. I have calculated these myself.

    Would you recommend I contact Howdens for a new quote to ask for the RRP prices for the items quoted and the actual discounts?

    Either way, I'm still not sure if I'm getting a good deal or not.

    Not sure how to proceed, so any advice is appreciated.
    Last edited by shuandrew; 29-09-2018 at 10:51 AM.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 29th Sep 18, 10:54 AM
    • 26,130 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:54 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:54 AM
    You shouldn't be comparing the two quotes. That's a red herring. It's some weird smoke and mirros thing that either your builder or the branch is doing. Throw the higher quote in the bin.

    There is an RRP. On Howdens quotes there is a discount on RRP listed next to the actual price of each and every object. That is the discount you need to look at. Is it there?

    Your higher quote has nothing to do with RRP. The RRP is ridiculous and no one ever sees the total RRP on an invoice because no one is ever charged it.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 29-09-2018 at 10:56 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 29th Sep 18, 1:13 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 18, 1:13 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Sep 18, 1:13 PM
    Hi Doozer,

    The discount next to the RRP as you describe isnít on the quotes I have received. Please see a screen grab of one of them at the following link: https://imgur.com/gallery/esdGbk5

    What do you make of it and how I should proceed? Thanks again.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 29th Sep 18, 4:29 PM
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    Doozergirl
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 18, 4:29 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Sep 18, 4:29 PM
    It's a customer quote with the discounts hidden.

    If I get a quote from Howdens it has the discount between the list item and the price.

    I'm not going to suggest that your builder isn't entitled to make a mark up on the cabinets. It's standard practice in any business to charge more than you pay.

    But giving you two quotes is just making stuff up. There is only one price that they give to the tradesperson. Now the discounts vary from branch to branch and trader to trader and they will produce two quotes, one for the trader and one for the customer once the trader agrees what mark up they will make with Howdens.

    But you don't give both to the customer because the original one is the cost price. The second, higher one is what people can choose to show the client.

    It's confusing already but pretending that there is a higher quote and you're getting the lower one is just odd.

    Clear as mud?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 29th Sep 18, 5:01 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 18, 5:01 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Sep 18, 5:01 PM
    Thank you for your explanation, Doozer

    Iím not sure Iím any clearer on whether Iím getting a good deal or not, and how to proceed. Should I just accept the form and price of of the quotes Iíve been given or query it in some way?

    I suppose what I really want to know is if this is a good price for the Clerkenwell range, as Howdens has given me no indication of the price of more budget or premium offerings.

    The higher of my two quotes is marked ďnormal trade priceĒ in biro pen by the salesman, whatever that means? Itís not the price without any discounts, I assume.

    Iíve submitted the quotes to DIY Kitchens to see what they come back with as well.

    Thank you for your help so far.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 29th Sep 18, 10:03 PM
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    Doozergirl
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:03 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Sep 18, 10:03 PM
    Ask if you can see the % discounts on RRP.

    I haven't bought a kitchen from them in a few years so I don't know anymore, but the % is key.

    The last bits I bought were 70% discount on units, 85% on plinth but in honesty, I think you could aim for that and your builder still make something if they're a more regular customer and the branch aren't tight like the one that opened near us. One opened nearer again and I moved account out of principle.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 30th Sep 18, 2:49 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 18, 2:49 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 18, 2:49 PM
    Hi Doozer,

    Thanks again. I have just sent off an email to request the percentage discounts against the RRP. Let's see what happens! I will report back
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 10th Oct 18, 1:26 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    Finally I have an update

    For some reason, Howdens just dodged my question about providing the RRP prices and re-sent the same quote.

    However, I now also have quotes from DIY Kitchens (flat pack, £2,800) and Benchmarx for comparable kitchen units (not including appliances). I got Benchmarx to price up against DIY Kitchens, and they are asking £3,050 - around £900 cheaper than Howdens' "discounted" price!

    We have an appointment this Friday with Howdens. May I ask your advice one more time, on haggling? Will it just be a case of whipping out the Benchmarx quote and asking if they will match it, or should I push for even lower? We also need flooring and a door, which we may buy from Howdens. Not sure if that is room for bargaining.

    Thank you for all your help
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Oct 18, 5:08 PM
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    Doozergirl
    DIY Kitchens are not flat pack - they come fully assembled with all the doors on and everything! Better than the other two.

    I spent 2 hours in Howdens this morning and they presented me with a "sale" price that was an insult to my intelligence. 61% discount on units (outrageous at any time of year let alone the fact they've been hounding me about their annual "sale") and told me it's so they can discount the appliances better - they're not competitive either! To say I left in an awkward silence is an understatement. At least I have a nice picture or two of the design for the client.

    I've spent half the day with spreadsheets unpicking it all and making sure the design is correct, but DIY kitchens are half the price on units (I've checked they're like for like on the doors) and my immediate reaction on the price of their appliances is "Wow". I will go to Benchmarx also this week just because I already have the list and will ask them to straight quote on it.

    You can tell Howdens to beat Benchmarx, why not! The worst they can do is match the price.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • shuandrew
    • By shuandrew 12th Oct 18, 6:30 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    shuandrew
    Reading that really made me chuckle, Doozergirl! I can just imagine you there, knowing all you do about all of this stuff.

    Speaking of percentage discounts, as I said above, we never received a quote that included them. Went to Howdens today and showed the Benchmarx quote. First comment from the salesman was that certain units from Benchmarx are flat packed and so they’d charge more to install. Didn’t know if that was true or not, but certainly not going to cost the £1000 extra Howdens has quoted for units.

    But they dropped the price anyway, to £2800, beating the Benchmarx quote by £200. Whilst he was “seeing what he could do” in the computer, I was watching closely. In a tab off the list of items and quotes prices, there was a box where he could enter a figure to apply a percentage discount to the whole order.

    Not 100% sure what that figure was originally, but saw he immediately changed it to 80%, then went back to subtotal. Still over £3000 from Benchmarx, so went back and tried 85%. Still no go. 86%. Nope. So then he just began manually reducing prices on the list of quoted items until we reached the £2800 figure, including free storage for 2 months and adding a set of drawer waste bins - £1,200 off the previous discount.

    Maybe we could squeeze some more out of it, but we have accepted and gone ahead. What do you think?

    Thanks again for all of your help, Doozergirl.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Oct 18, 7:51 PM
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    Doozergirl
    I think you've done well. I think the Howdens doors are marginally better than Benchmarx and anything in the 80% region is really good for them. I think taking in someone else's quote is the only way to beat them down on price properly.

    Howdens have emailed me to chase up. I need to consolidate my price with DIY kitchens and I will give it to Howdens as it will make my life a little easier if they do beat it, but the difference is £6,900 to £3,800!!

    I've checked the quality of doors is the same too, so it's just insanity.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • SparklesJD
    • By SparklesJD 14th Oct 18, 12:26 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    SparklesJD
    Howdens won't usually release prices to the end-user, only to the person with the trade account.

    The Howdens sales guy came to do the final measuring on our new kitchen recently and I asked how much an intergrated dishwasher would be. Awkward silence. I said he could whisper it to the foreman who was there with us. He wouldn't speak to him either, only to the account-holder. It's just how they do business.

    There are stories about Howdens providing two quotes - one for the builder to give to the client, one showing what they're actually paying (so a builder can make a margin on the kitchen supply), which might be what's happened here, but I don't know whether they're true.

    Our builder told us that depending on the business a firm put Howdens way, the 'trade discount' can vary enormously.

    It was an issue for us, as we were on a tight budget and it was very stressful having to get a new quote every time you wanted to change a cabinet!

    We looked at DIY Kitchens and Ikea, Magnet and B&Q and a couple of local suppliers, but we liked the Howdens cabinets, they're good quality, supplied ready to install (as are most of the others) and they were ready to collect within 48 hours.

    Our builder said Ikea build quality is fine, although 'not as good as it used to be' but they don't have pipe cavities in the cabinets, so aren't as tidy, (I think).

    Once we factored in building cabinets from scratch and the cost of delivery, they weren't much cheaper for us against the final quote we got from Howdens. I was also put off by a friend's ongoing problems with her Ikea kitchen, which have been awful.

    DIY Kitchens didn't seem to do a standard matt white cabinet with handles, which is what we really wanted, although we could've got them bespoked. We were also put off by the ordering process, i.e. needing to know exactly what you're ordering online, plus there was a 21 day lead time for us, even with a standard range. Having said all that, everyone we spoke to was very impressed with their build standard and prices.

    In the end, our builders went back to Howdens and get us a bigger discount, so they wouldn't have been all that much cheaper either.

    We got the worktops and appliances elsewhere (bamboo tops from Worktop Express, they look amazing, but they did deliver the wrong colour - we ended up choosing to keep them though! We got a range cooker from IdealKit and extractor from Marks Electrical - I'd recommend both).
    Last edited by SparklesJD; 14-10-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Removed double-spaces.
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