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  • FIRST POST
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 21st Sep 18, 11:55 AM
    • 29Posts
    • 14Thanks
    $izzle$
    DWP mistake in black and white!
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 18, 11:55 AM
    DWP mistake in black and white! 21st Sep 18 at 11:55 AM
    Hi,
    In August I attended a f2f assessment for transition from DLA to PIP, and whilst my Care component was increased, I lost my high rate mobility.
    Needless to say MR came back as their decision upheld, so I started tribunal proceedings.
    Today I have received all the paperwork that the DWP have sent to the Tribunal, so decided to go through it all.
    On Activity Descriptor 12. Moving around, the assessor has written:

    Therefore it is reasonable to suggest that she can stand and then move around more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided

    Why am I having to fight for my high rate mobility to be restored, when the assessor has written that I am eligible for it?
    I phoned DWP to ask for an explanation and was told as it was now going through the tribunal process, someone from DWP will go through my paperwork and this will probably be flagged up, meaning they will change their decision before it reaches the appeal hearing!

    I would be interested to hear what you think about this.
    Has similar happened to you?

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    • 939 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    DWP do sometimes change decision following MR and going to tribunal. If they do the appeal is halted (although you can still MR and appeal the revised decision if appropriate).


    Although you have spoken to DWP it may be worth you writing to them to draw their attention to what you have discovered and invite them to review the decision prior to tribunal - would be interested to know what others think.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    • 5,536 Posts
    • 6,172 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:12 PM
    I wouldn't hold my breath that somebody at DWP will notice it before the Tribunal but at least you have solid evidence that the initial decision was wrong.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 21st Sep 18, 1:21 PM
    • 939 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:21 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 18, 1:21 PM
    Regardless of whether or not you write direct to DWP you should right to the tribunal service highlighting any errors, discrepancies and things you disagree with. Your letter will then be copied to DWP by the tribunal service (although I suspect DWP will not read it).
    • cantcope
    • By cantcope 21st Sep 18, 2:00 PM
    • 1,737 Posts
    • 1,294 Thanks
    cantcope
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:00 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:00 PM
    what the assessor has written doesnt necessarily agree with what the decision maker decided. you need to find the decision letter and the reasos for their decision. if that says the same then i'd not worry at all about your tribunal as theyll just make themselves look stupid. again.
    my eyes are like mirrors. They reflect whats going on around me rather than whats inside
    Original debt May 06 £16569,25th Feb 08 DEBT FREE

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    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 21st Sep 18, 2:40 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 2,421 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:40 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:40 PM
    Hi,
    In August I attended a f2f assessment for transition from DLA to PIP, and whilst my Care component was increased, I lost my high rate mobility.
    Needless to say MR came back as their decision upheld, so I started tribunal proceedings.
    Today I have received all the paperwork that the DWP have sent to the Tribunal, so decided to go through it all.
    On Activity Descriptor 12. Moving around, the assessor has written:

    Therefore it is reasonable to suggest that she can stand and then move around more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided

    Why am I having to fight for my high rate mobility to be restored, when the assessor has written that I am eligible for it?
    I phoned DWP to ask for an explanation and was told as it was now going through the tribunal process, someone from DWP will go through my paperwork and this will probably be flagged up, meaning they will change their decision before it reaches the appeal hearing!

    I would be interested to hear what you think about this.
    Has similar happened to you?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by $izzle$
    As someone else has said - you need to look at the decision letter and see why the decision maker made a different decision. They usually follow the assessor's recommendation but not in all cases. It may not be a mistake - the decision maker may have disagreed with the assessor.

    IQ
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 21st Sep 18, 2:53 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    $izzle$
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:53 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 18, 2:53 PM
    Thank you all so much for your replies.
    If it ISa case of the decision maker disagreeing with the assessor, then it makes me wonder what we are paying Atos and the other company billions of pounds for, in that case, because my gp would have been happy to give them my health report for free, as she is doing with the tribunal.
    After all, she has treated me for years and knows exactly what is going on with my health, unlike the decision maker who doesn’t know me from Adam!
    I will definitely send a letter to the tribunal with a copy of the page showing what she wrote during my assessment, and wait and see what happens.
    Will report back.

    Thanks again
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 22nd Sep 18, 1:49 PM
    • 2,540 Posts
    • 2,937 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 18, 1:49 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Sep 18, 1:49 PM
    The DWP decision maker can override the assessors report. As others have said the reasons for this should be included in the DWP's evidence bundle - probably in the first few pages.

    Getting supportive medical records / a letter from your GP confirming that you cannot reliably walk 20m for the majority of the time will be very useful. Also evidence from family members / carers / etc will all add to your case.
    It's worth writing a clear, concise statement to the Tribunal Service (TS) explaining why the assessor was correct and the DWP DM incorrect (quote the relevant page numbers from the DWP evidence bundle in your statement rather than sending the actual pages). Include the compelling evidence from your GP / extracts from medical records etc.

    The TS will distribute evidence received to all parties ( the DWP, your representative if you have one). Another DWP decision will review this before the tribunal hearing, so it's in your interest to make your statement as clear and compelling as possible - just sending the page from the DWP evidence bundle may not be sufficient, and without clear explanation may just confuse.

    This is a useful guide to navigating a PIP appeal -
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 22nd Sep 18, 2:23 PM
    • 6,720 Posts
    • 12,175 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 18, 2:23 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Sep 18, 2:23 PM
    I had a DWP decision maker override a decision made by health assessors (and another DM).

    Basically I scored enough points for mobility but not for daily living. I was awarded full points for being unable to prepare a meal at all.

    I put in a MR pointing out that the assessor had made reference to me being unable to use knives in the cooking part but then said I was safe to cut up a 3mm sized pill which was a contradiction and I felt I should score for needing assistance to take medication. I also stated that she'd failed to consider that I needed assistance with more than 3.5 hours of therapy a week. Combining those points with the points I already had should have gained me enhanced daily living.

    The DWP awarded me standard daily living, they agreed that I needed help to take medication and with therapy but downgraded my meals award saying I could use a microwave. Someone point me towards seizure safe Tupperware dishes and I'll start using those, until then I'm still stuck over here in no cooking limbo.

    I didn't appeal as I was already stressed out my box by this point.
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    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 22nd Sep 18, 10:44 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    $izzle$
    Thank you also to Alice Holt and Glaswejen for your input too.
    I will be writing to the tribunal service, giving the page number, as they will have received exactly the same package of paperwork that I have received.

    Glaswejen, I’m so sorry you weren’t able to appeal the Care component part of your claim, it is unacceptable that the stress you experienced made your condition worse, to the point where you felt you couldn’t fight them any more and just accepted their decision.

    Take care everyone
    $izzle$
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 22nd Sep 18, 11:26 PM
    • 6,720 Posts
    • 12,175 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    Thank you also to Alice Holt and Glaswejen for your input too.
    I will be writing to the tribunal service, giving the page number, as they will have received exactly the same package of paperwork that I have received.

    Glaswejen, Iím so sorry you werenít able to appeal the Care component part of your claim, it is unacceptable that the stress you experienced made your condition worse, to the point where you felt you couldnít fight them any more and just accepted their decision.

    Take care everyone
    $izzle$
    Originally posted by $izzle$
    You'll breeze through a tribunal with evidence like that to be fair.
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    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 23rd Sep 18, 12:31 PM
    • 2,540 Posts
    • 2,937 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    You'll breeze through a tribunal with evidence like that to be fair.
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    Certainly on the few occasions this has occurred at my local CAB, the client(s) have had their original assessment reinstated by the tribunal.

    But it's worth preparing thoroughly for the hearing:
    - debunking the decision makers reasons for overriding the assessor;
    - writing a clear submission to the TS with full details of your walking abilities, distance before needing to stop due to pain / discomfort, time before needing to stop, frequency, help needed, examples, time needed to recover before able to start to walk again, the after effects of walking, etc ;
    - sending the TS compelling evidence;
    - following the guidance in that appeal guide link.

    It's also worth going carefully though the evidence bundle to identify any inconsistencies in the DWP DM stance.

    Sometimes such a strong submission can be constructed, that the tribunal panel will make a decision on the papers alone, and the client does not need to attend to give their verbal evidence.

    If the OP does need to attend then the advice in the guide to have written notes and examples with them to talk to the tribunal about is very important. The panel need the complete picture to make the right decision.
    For walking it is also very important at the hearing to understand the relationship between distance and time, and to be consistent in your replies. For a very slow walker c. 30 seconds walking will be equivalent to about 20 metres covered.
    https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/34299/pip-walking-times-rather-than-distances
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 8th Nov 18, 8:51 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    $izzle$
    I'm sorry it has taken so long to update you, but nothing happened until yesterday.
    That is when the brown envelope came through the letterbox with the news that the DWP have reinstated my high rate mobility and the appeal has been cancelled.
    I am more than delighted as losing my Motorbility vehicle would have been totally life-changing.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 8th Nov 18, 8:57 PM
    • 939 Posts
    • 646 Thanks
    calcotti
    Congratulations.
    • $izzle$
    • By $izzle$ 9th Nov 18, 7:30 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    $izzle$
    Thank you Calcotti and to everyone for their input.
    It is always worth taking it all the way if you believe the DWP’s decision to be wrong.

    X
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