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  • FIRST POST
    • youngretired
    • By youngretired 9th Aug 18, 8:40 PM
    • 238Posts
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    youngretired
    Personal savings allowance
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:40 PM
    Personal savings allowance 9th Aug 18 at 8:40 PM
    Has anyone not had HMRC notified of their interest earned in 2016-17 and 2017-18?

    My husband found out today when he contacted HMRC that they had no record for either years of any interest that he has earned. HMRC confirmed that Yes banks/building societies should be telling them.

    He has contacted his banks/building societies and at the moment 4 (Lloyds, TSB, BOS and Tesco) have confirmed that no they don't tell HMRC and it is the customers responsibility. He is still awaiting a response from HSBC, M&S, 1st Direct, Nationwide and Kent Reliance.

    He now has to advice HMRC himself of the interest earned as he knows that he owes some tax. He already knew that he had to advice on joint accounts but was just awaiting confirmation from HMRC what they had already been told.
Page 1
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Aug 18, 8:45 PM
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    masonic
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:45 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:45 PM
    It is the taxpayer's responsibility to inform HMRC of any untaxed interest if there may be a tax liability. I was under the impression that the banks did so by return now that they have stopped deducting tax at source, so I'm a little surprised your husband has been informed otherwise.

    I've been declaring mine and have no idea what information HMRC has been getting from elsewhere.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 9th Aug 18, 9:00 PM
    • 749 Posts
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    Terry Towelling
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:00 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:00 PM
    Do the banks/building societies have enough information to be able to report the interest we earn to HMRC? Wouldn't they need our NI Numbers? Some banks have asked me for mine when opening a savings account but not all. Without wishing to wade through the T&Cs of all the banks accounts I hold, shouldn't there be something in them that says the bank will use our personal data to report to HMRC?
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Aug 18, 9:03 PM
    • 10,301 Posts
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    masonic
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:03 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:03 PM
    Do the banks/building societies have enough information to be able to report the interest we earn to HMRC? Wouldn't they need our NI Numbers? Some banks have asked me for mine when opening a savings account but not all. Without wishing to wade through the T&Cs of all the banks accounts I hold, shouldn't there be something in them that says the bank will use our personal data to report to HMRC?
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    It's a good question regarding NI numbers - it seems they would be rather helpful.

    T&C state that the company will share information if it is required of them by law. This avoids them having to detail every particular instance of information sharing.

    Edit: Just picking one at random, here's what they say:
    https://www.lloydsbank.com/privacy.asp#13
    "Who we share your personal information with
    We may share your personal information with outside organisations such as credit card providers, insurers or tax authorities. This is so that we can provide you with products and services, run our business, and obey rules that apply to us. Here we list all the types of organisation that we may share your personal information with.

    Lloyds Banking Group
    We may share your personal information with other companies in Lloyds Banking Group.

    Authorities
    This means official bodies that include:

    Central and local government
    HM Revenue & Customs, regulators and other tax authorities
    UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme and other deposit guarantee schemes
    Law enforcement and fraud prevention agencies.
    ..."
    Last edited by masonic; 09-08-2018 at 9:10 PM.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 9th Aug 18, 9:16 PM
    • 749 Posts
    • 586 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:16 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:16 PM
    Thanks for finding that. I have created a personal tax account with HMRC which shows my income details but never showed my Carer's Allowance until I told them about it (and then they put the wrong amount in!) and never shows any interest income. I am way under the level at which tax would be payable but I thought it might be there.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Aug 18, 9:55 PM
    • 10,301 Posts
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    masonic
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:55 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 9:55 PM
    Thanks for finding that. I have created a personal tax account with HMRC which shows my income details but never showed my Carer's Allowance until I told them about it (and then they put the wrong amount in!) and never shows any interest income. I am way under the level at which tax would be payable but I thought it might be there.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    What's written in the personal tax account is just a guesstimate until they get around to updating it. For the 2017/18 tax year, they won't generate a calculated figure until Sep/Oct and this may or may not include information from the banks this year... we'll see. Previously I've contacted HMRC early because I was due a refund. This year, I'll owe them tax, so I'm leaving it as late as possible and will see if the figure they arrive at is anywhere near the truth.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 9th Aug 18, 11:12 PM
    • 3,103 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:12 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:12 PM
    It is the taxpayer's responsibility to inform HMRC of any untaxed interest if there may be a tax liability. I was under the impression that the banks did so by return now that they have stopped deducting tax at source, so I'm a little surprised your husband has been informed otherwise.

    I've been declaring mine and have no idea what information HMRC has been getting from elsewhere.
    Originally posted by masonic

    HMRC say they following re duty to report interest received:


    If your not employed, do not get a pension or do not complete Self-Assessment, your bank or building society will tell HMRC how much interest you received at the end of the year. HMRC will tell you if you need to pay tax and how to pay it.
    If the interest you received was 10,000 or more, you need to complete a Self-Assessment tax return.

    So if you get less than 10,000pa and don't complete a SA, just sit back and see what happens. I can't see how HMRC would fine you in later years if you do nothing based on their own advise.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 10th Aug 18, 12:09 AM
    • 8,744 Posts
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    eskbanker
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 12:09 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 12:09 AM
    If your not employed
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Is that really a straight copy/paste from an HMRC page?!

    I would of expected better on there website's....
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 10th Aug 18, 12:28 AM
    • 3,553 Posts
    • 20,284 Thanks
    mije1983
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 12:28 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 12:28 AM
    Is that really a straight copy/paste from an HMRC page?!

    I would of expected better on there website's....
    Originally posted by eskbanker

    I had to check out of curiosity. It is grammatically correct on the HMRC page


    https://www.gov.uk/apply-tax-free-interest-on-savings

    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 10th Aug 18, 12:33 AM
    • 3,103 Posts
    • 2,154 Thanks
    Tom99
    Is that really a straight copy/paste from an HMRC page?!

    I would of expected better on there website's....
    Originally posted by eskbanker

    No its not. The Government website can cope with an apostrophe but this website cannot!
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Aug 18, 7:01 AM
    • 3,289 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    Dazed and confused

    He has contacted his banks/building societies and at the moment 4 (Lloyds, TSB, BOS and Tesco) have confirmed that no they don't tell HMRC and it is the customers responsibility. He is still awaiting a response from HSBC, M&S, 1st Direct, Nationwide and Kent Reliance.


    Whoever he contacted in those 4 banks needs some training. Banks have been obliged to report this information for donkeys years and nothing has changed in this respect in recent times.

    Gov.uk has detailed information about this https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/type-17-and-18-bank-building-society-interest-and-other-interest-returns-of-interest-and-eusd/bank-and-building-society-bbsi-european-union-savings-directive-eusd-and-other-oi-returns-of-interest

    As others have pointed out banks are not required to obtain National Insurance numbers for normal bank accounts (but do seem to be for non taxable ISA's!) so quite how easy it is for HMRC to match everything up to individual tax records is another matter.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 10th Aug 18, 7:37 AM
    • 10,301 Posts
    • 7,652 Thanks
    masonic
    HMRC say they following re duty to report interest received:


    If your not employed, do not get a pension or do not complete Self-Assessment, your bank or building society will tell HMRC how much interest you received at the end of the year. HMRC will tell you if you need to pay tax and how to pay it.
    If the interest you received was 10,000 or more, you need to complete a Self-Assessment tax return.

    So if you get less than 10,000pa and don't complete a SA, just sit back and see what happens. I can't see how HMRC would fine you in later years if you do nothing based on their own advise.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Interesting, I haven't revisited this for a while. In the last tax year I received <1,000 in savings interest and about 2,800 in P2P interest. I can claim bad debt relief on some of the P2P interest as I have had some bad debt over the same period.

    My original plan was to wait until towards the end of the year, when I'll know how much of the bad debt is recoverable and then declare the interest and ask for the appropriate bad debt relief.

    Perhaps an alternative option is to wait and see what figure HMRC comes up with after receiving information direct from the banks and P2P platforms and I might not have to do anything.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Aug 18, 7:52 AM
    • 3,289 Posts
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    Dazed and confused
    But P2P isn't a bank or building society. Yet. Or are some now banks??
    • masonic
    • By masonic 10th Aug 18, 8:21 AM
    • 10,301 Posts
    • 7,652 Thanks
    masonic
    But P2P isn't a bank or building society. Yet. Or are some now banks??
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    The wording on the HMRC site is "income from savings and investments". It includes things like income from Gilts and corporate bonds as well as interest from savings and P2P lending.

    "You need to report:
    - any income of 2,500 or more that has not been taxed, such as tips or commission
    - income from savings and investments of 10,000 or more before tax
    - income from dividends of 10,000 or more before tax"


    Several P2P platforms have confirmed that they have the same reporting obligations as the banks when it comes to P2P interest.
    Last edited by masonic; 10-08-2018 at 8:29 AM.
    • parker1982
    • By parker1982 10th Aug 18, 8:31 AM
    • 59 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    parker1982
    My experience for the 2016/17 tax year was that only a handful of the banks / building societies provided HMRC with details of the interest I earned. I had to work it all out manually after downloading interest certificates or requesting them by post for a lot of the regular savers to make sure the details HMRC had were correct.

    When I was on the phone to a number of the banks regarding the reporting of interest to HMRC such as Tesco and TSB they both said it was my responsibility to report to HMRC and not theirs.

    I informed HMRC of this but they didn't seem interested. I agree with the principle that ensuring the information HMRC is the taxpayers responsibility but I feel its pretty pointless to officially say that banks and building societies will report this info to HMRC when hardly any of them bother.

    One of the most annoying things I found with the personal tax account on the gov.uk website was that it wouldn't allow me to add details of the missing savings interest, I could only add or remove the few details details that existed there. In the end I spent a significant amount of time on the phone to HMRC whilst manually updating details of all my accounts. I would have preferred to just email them details of all my interest generating accounts but they only deal with work by post or by phone.
    • Newly retired
    • By Newly retired 10th Aug 18, 8:37 AM
    • 2,394 Posts
    • 2,799 Thanks
    Newly retired
    It is really annoying that I have to do Self Assessment because I receive a mere 330 pa French pension, so I use it to declare my savings interest, which is in excess of 1000 but nowhere anywhere near 10000.
    I do not know if HMRC have any way of checking my figures. My French pension statement is for a calendar year so is not much help.
    For savings interest I gather all the information, either online or from printed certificates, though for some accounts I just have to add up the monthly interest myself. I hope HMRC agree with my totals. There are too many items to use their calculation page.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Aug 18, 8:48 AM
    • 3,289 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    They do report it. They are under a legal obligation to do so.

    Whether HMRC can link that information to your personal tax account is a different matter.

    As has been mentioned previously there is no obligation for a National Insurance number to be provided on a non ISA account and gov.uk advice was that if you had joint accounts you needed to report that yourself.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-savings-allowance-factsheet/personal-savings-allowance#what-you-need-to-do
    • colsten
    • By colsten 10th Aug 18, 10:14 AM
    • 9,443 Posts
    • 8,394 Thanks
    colsten
    It is really annoying that I have to do Self Assessment because I receive a mere 330 pa French pension, so I use it to declare my savings interest, which is in excess of 1000 but nowhere anywhere near 10000.
    I do not know if HMRC have any way of checking my figures. My French pension statement is for a calendar year so is not much help.
    For savings interest I gather all the information, either online or from printed certificates, though for some accounts I just have to add up the monthly interest myself. I hope HMRC agree with my totals. There are too many items to use their calculation page.
    Originally posted by Newly retired
    Unless you go over the 10k annual taxable savings interest, you don't have to provide HMRC with a line by line list of where you earned the interest. One bottom line number suffices. I record my monthly interest payments in AceMoney (more or less a clone of MS Money), so at any point in time I know what my bottom line taxable interest payments were in any period. For the last tax year, the figure HMRC had from the banks was more or less the correct figure though I noticed that one or two banks had failed to report, and/or the HMRC were unable to allocate reported numbers to me. In previous years, I had just given HMRC a bottom line number, and they never asked for a breakdown.

    I agree it's a bit of a pain having to do a self-assessment just because you get a few pennies of income abroad. There should be an exemption for trivial amounts.
    • soulsaver
    • By soulsaver 10th Aug 18, 11:24 AM
    • 2,146 Posts
    • 998 Thanks
    soulsaver
    No its not. The Government website can cope with an apostrophe but this website cannot!
    Originally posted by Tom99
    In a hole & still digging...
    • soulsaver
    • By soulsaver 10th Aug 18, 11:28 AM
    • 2,146 Posts
    • 998 Thanks
    soulsaver
    Unless you go over the 10k annual taxable savings interest, you don't have to provide HMRC with a line by line list of where you earned the interest.
    Originally posted by colsten
    I'd agree with your interpretation, but maybe wishful thinking on my part, because best to point out that isn't what HMRC's webby actually says...

    "you need to provide a tax return if, in the last tax year:

    ..your income from savings or investments was 10,000 or more before tax - ..."

    Note it doesn't say your taxable income.

    https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/who-must-send-a-tax-return
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