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  • FIRST POST
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 7th Aug 18, 11:50 PM
    • 104Posts
    • 22Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    Current property owner and first time buyer - help to buy conflict
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:50 PM
    Current property owner and first time buyer - help to buy conflict 7th Aug 18 at 11:50 PM
    My brother bought his first property in his 20's in London and now in 30's. This was bought as an investment as a buy to let property. Now he has never had a property of his own as a residential to live as he preferred renting (the property investment helped him gain good capital growth over the last 10 years and the rental paid down mortgage and covered most of his rental costs for his own living) as he liked be flexible to be able to choose new properties and move around with his work that has quite a bit of international travel.

    Now the 20% loan assistance for first time buyers would not be available to (despite him not actually having a home to live as his main residency) as he would still be classed as someone owning real estate plus he would be hit by the new increased stamp duty costs for a second plus property etc - all seems unfair as those companies with 10+ do not get hit (ie big investors), while the small guy gets hit and plus some people do not like to invest their money in stock market etc, would be fairer if government allowed 1 residential as main residence and at least 1 investment buy-to-let (for those also to be able to claim first time buyer assistance and not have to pay increased stamp duty costs).

    My question (given the background): His girlfriend would qualify for the first time buyer and would want the 20% loan available for first time buyers. Now for land registry when she buys the name would have to be in her name etc but if my brother wanted to give her 50% of down payment and gift her for time been half of the mortgage payments so in x number of years there could be a legal contract she signs (at purchase) that states he has half ownership claim etc? Is there a way to structure this with a lawyer in some way?

    He would not be willing to sell the London property as growth has been too good and expects continued strong capital growth. Even if that was not the case, it is in a very hot rental location so provides great rental income.
    Last edited by Goldcrypto; 07-08-2018 at 11:53 PM.
Page 5
    • mangog
    • By mangog 9th Aug 18, 4:28 PM
    • 108 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    mangog
    I'll be honest, I didn't read much further than page 2, but "average Joe's just looking to work hard and have one property investment along with their residential" is the funniest thing I've read in a while!
    • studentguy
    • By studentguy 9th Aug 18, 4:45 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    studentguy
    Or at all interested...I am interested in solutions. Or any of the other unrelated nonsense. A person that has already demonstrated his own knowledge of real estate economics and investment - one best to avoid. Not interested in your other pointless posts here as not constructive for me to even reply.
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    You seemed interested enough to make assumptions about me. Also I have knowledge of "real estate" as you like to call it, economics and investment, I just believe in paying your fair share in taxes, funny that.

    I will not bet 'getting' anyone to do anything. They will be making their own investment decisions. No the fact is they are doing nothing wrong and is likely they will be buying in the conventional manner together. However, asking a question helps people explore their options.
    So why argue?

    I'd suggest not adding anything else as there is nothing of value to this thread from you. Spend your time work related and get saving.
    For someone who has no interest in my life, telling me to work and get saving is a bit odd, it's also incredibly patronising. I know how to work and save thanks, that's how I'm in the process of buying a house.

    So clueless. You do realise not all properties are equal value? Some properties in the UK are fraction of the value to London. Or do you know the financial breakdown of how many people may have been on a deed to another property? No money used to invest in property by my brother was given to him. Only his savings were used
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    And?

    Another clueless post here. You do not think there can be large property projects at times like if someone chose to renovate to increase the value of the property? You think people only choose to pay of the minimum mortgage and not try and overpay to reduce the time frame of a mortgage? Oh wait, oh silly of me, despite you not even been a property investor you're not even a homeowner. Explains it. Pointless.....
    I'll be a homeowner by the end of the month...? Yes I'm well aware about overpaying mortgages thanks.

    I don't know why you're here, you just want to argue with people who don't follow your philosophy or trying to con the taxpayer. You should probably leave, people here don't take kindly to tax avoidance.
    Despite my name, I'm not a student any more
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 9th Aug 18, 4:48 PM
    • 1,017 Posts
    • 1,235 Thanks
    need an answer

    I don't know why you're here, you just want to argue with people who don't follow your philosophy or trying to con the taxpayer. You should probably leave, people here don't take kindly to tax avoidance.
    Originally posted by studentguy
    Funnily enough I was about to post a comment along similar lines.
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    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 9th Aug 18, 4:48 PM
    • 1,891 Posts
    • 4,161 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    Real Estate? You sound like a Yank
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Aug 18, 5:14 PM
    • 26,122 Posts
    • 70,541 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Does anyone know what the question is now/anymore?

    Including the OP?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Soundgirlrocks
    • By Soundgirlrocks 9th Aug 18, 5:29 PM
    • 568 Posts
    • 851 Thanks
    Soundgirlrocks
    This is really why a lot of people here seem to be commenting with things they do not understand.

    There are such things as 'private residency relief' for your main residence property before selling. By having lived there for x period of time before a sale.

    https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home

    .
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    Private Residence Relief
    You don't pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell (or dispose of) your home if all of the following apply:
    • you have one home and you've lived in it as your main home for all the time you've owned it
    • you haven't let part of it out - this doesn't include having a single lodger
    • you haven't used part of it for business only
    • the grounds, including all buildings, are less than 5,000 square metres (just over an acre) in total
    • you didn't buy it just to make a gain


    From the link you posted, you clearly didn't read it so I've highlighted the bits that apply and why your brother will get a hefty capital gains bill if he sells.
    Last edited by Soundgirlrocks; 09-08-2018 at 5:33 PM.
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 5:54 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    Real Estate? You sound like a Yank
    Originally posted by Cheeky_Monkey
    You do not want to use the correct terminology? So should Cambridge university rename their Masters degree in Real Estate Finance to something else? Along with every other program in the UK ?

    https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/directory/lelempref

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/real-estate

    'property in the form of land or buidings'

    My family is mixed of both English and American. Are these boards to exclude 'Yanks'? Although I am English native born (but also have dual citizenship as an American via family). Any other slang names you want to call Indian's or Chinese or anyone else using these boards?
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 6:12 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    Private Residence Relief


    From the link you posted, you clearly didn't read it so I've highlighted the bits that apply and why your brother will get a hefty capital gains bill if he sells.
    Originally posted by Soundgirlrocks
    No. I know exactly what I posted. The fact highlights that 'private residence relief' exists. That shows how it can not be payable in some circumstances, but is still massively reduced when the property becomes your main residence. Some maybe payable but it is significantly reduced. Here you go, a little more reading for you - I guess not a property investor:

    https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/capital-gains-tax/capital-gains-tax-on-property-avuq96u1500f

    There is absolutely nothing wrong people paying capital gains tax when you have made a great return. It just means your return is a little less but still a great return overall. Someone here equated a comparison to your job. If you salary increased 3 or 4 times, you do not turn it down just because you pay more tax?

    The immaturity of someone getting excited about someone having to pay seems alarming.
    Last edited by Goldcrypto; 09-08-2018 at 6:15 PM.
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 6:16 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    Does anyone know what the question is now/anymore?

    Including the OP?
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    Does anyone know why you are still posting on this thread, including you?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Aug 18, 6:37 PM
    • 26,122 Posts
    • 70,541 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Does anyone know why you are still posting on this thread, including you?
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    I know why I'm here. I remembered. I came to ask your advice about Private Residence Relief and wondered if you could illustrate how your brother plans to take advantage of this particular form of relief on his London property, just as an example?
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 09-08-2018 at 6:40 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 6:47 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    I know why I'm here. I remembered. I came to ask your advice about Private Residence Relief and wondered if you could illustrate how your brother plans to take advantage of this particular form of relief on his London property, just as an example?
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    You would need to ask him? Would also be interesting to have a crystal ball to know what legislations are in policy, in the next 15 or 20 or 25 years when he possibly looks at selling? Or maybe some current options -

    https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/capital-gains-tax/capital-gains-tax-on-property-avuq96u1500f
    Last edited by Goldcrypto; 09-08-2018 at 6:51 PM.
    'Wall Street is the only place that people ride to in a Rolls Royce to get advice from those who take the subway'

    W Buffett
    • studentguy
    • By studentguy 9th Aug 18, 6:53 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    studentguy
    You would need to ask him?
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    That's a good point, why isn't "he" here asking about his financial issues rather than you?
    Despite my name, I'm not a student any more
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 7:03 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    That's a good point, why isn't "he" here asking about his financial issues rather than you?
    Originally posted by studentguy
    He no doubt is asking other people, colleagues, investment consultants in his target market, or if he is on other specific real estate related forums. Although, we have probably established, here is not possibly not the best place to seek investment advice - other forums with experienced investors probably are.
    'Wall Street is the only place that people ride to in a Rolls Royce to get advice from those who take the subway'

    W Buffett
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Aug 18, 7:07 PM
    • 26,122 Posts
    • 70,541 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    You would need to ask him? Would also be interesting to have a crystal ball to know what legislations are in policy, in the next 15 or 20 or 25 years when he possibly looks at selling? Or maybe some current options -

    https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/capital-gains-tax/capital-gains-tax-on-property-avuq96u1500f
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    Yes, we know that you now know it doesn't apply to your brother's house at all, but thanks to the link to the Which website in the absence of your having any clue.

    This thread of yours and talking to you is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and claims victory.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 7:19 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    Yes, we know that you now know it doesn't apply to your brother's house at all, but thanks to the link to the Which website in the absence of your having any clue.

    This thread of yours and talking to you is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and claims victory.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    I know exactly what is covered. The point is there is current legislation (for now) on your main residence and how you can move this around. However, just like this thread with people like you are waffling on with unrelated points. We are now at the stage of people asking questions a few decades away

    Funny, I feel the same way. Is like asking what the financial sum of x and y is, then you telling me cheese. More like as relevant as chalk and cheese.
    'Wall Street is the only place that people ride to in a Rolls Royce to get advice from those who take the subway'

    W Buffett
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 9th Aug 18, 7:26 PM
    • 26,122 Posts
    • 70,541 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    I know exactly what is covered. The point is there is current legislation (for now) on your main residence and how you can move this around. However, just like this thread with people like you are waffling on with unrelated points. We are now at the stage of people asking questions a few decades away

    Funny, I feel the same way. Is like asking what the financial sum of x and y is, then you telling me cheese. More like as relevant as chalk and cheese.
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto
    You cannot move Private Residence Relief around to suit yourself on investment properties. It's tax evasion.

    "For Now" - Your way of saying "I'm wrong and I literally have no clue what I'm talking about"
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 7:36 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    You cannot move Private Residence Relief around to suit yourself on investment properties. It's tax evasion.

    "For Now" - Your way of saying "I'm wrong and I literally have no clue what I'm talking about"
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    You honestly want to ask a question, that I can not answer on behalf of someone, and something that could be 3 decades away?

    Not a current concern for me, or him, for now. You think that a property can not change from an investment one to a residential one? A property that was once an investment to be changed to your main residence as it then becomes your home? He can speak to a lawyer in a few decades from now and explore the landscape. If you send me a cheque then I'll give you the answer what they did in a few decades.

    Afraid I do not have anymore time with this 'back to the future' scenario. Have other things to be productive with. Have a wonderful evening.
    'Wall Street is the only place that people ride to in a Rolls Royce to get advice from those who take the subway'

    W Buffett
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 9th Aug 18, 7:42 PM
    • 1,017 Posts
    • 1,235 Thanks
    need an answer

    Afraid I do not have anymore time with this 'back to the future' scenario. Have other things to be productive with. Have a wonderful evening.
    Originally posted by Goldcrypto

    and on that note we can but pray that Elvis has finally left the building!
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    • Goldcrypto
    • By Goldcrypto 9th Aug 18, 7:45 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Goldcrypto
    and on that note we can but pray that Elvis has finally left the building!
    Originally posted by need an answer
    My favourite Elvis Presley quote : 'Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away.'
    'Wall Street is the only place that people ride to in a Rolls Royce to get advice from those who take the subway'

    W Buffett
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 9th Aug 18, 7:50 PM
    • 5,284 Posts
    • 3,382 Thanks
    csgohan4
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
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