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  • FIRST POST
    • Teasedale
    • By Teasedale 7th Aug 18, 6:50 PM
    • 45Posts
    • 29Thanks
    Teasedale
    ESA, capital, and owning one's home
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 6:50 PM
    ESA, capital, and owning one's home 7th Aug 18 at 6:50 PM
    My ex has an asset that she wants to swap for a house I own of equivalent market value. She would then be able to claim full ESA because her remaining capital would be under the limit.



    Suits me too, but what could possibly go wrong?
Page 1
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 7th Aug 18, 7:12 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 1,294 Thanks
    Sunny Intervals
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 7:12 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 7:12 PM
    My ex has an asset that she wants to swap for a house I own of equivalent market value. She would then be able to claim full ESA because her remaining capital would be under the limit.

    Suits me too, but what could possibly go wrong?
    Originally posted by Teasedale

    Assuming she was trading her asset for your house in order to live in the house, it is a possibility. It's no different to using her savings to buy a house to live in.

    Best to write to the DWP first to get some kind of confirmation first, though, so as to avoid any accusation of deprivation of capital.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 7th Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    • 5,453 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    Will she be living in the house she will then own? If not, the value of the property will be taken into account when calculating entitlement to Income Related benefits.
    • Teasedale
    • By Teasedale 7th Aug 18, 10:27 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Teasedale
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:27 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:27 PM
    Assuming she was trading her asset for your house in order to live in the house,
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals
    Yup

    Best to write to the DWP first to get some kind of confirmation first, though, so as to avoid any accusation of deprivation of capital.
    Mmm, might cause delay though. Once the deed is done they've got a simple choice, allow or disallow, and she is no worse off.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 8th Aug 18, 7:52 AM
    • 5,453 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 7:52 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 7:52 AM
    [QUOTE=Sunny Intervals;74630299
    Best to write to the DWP first to get some kind of confirmation first, though, so as to avoid any accusation of deprivation of capital.[/QUOTE]


    It's very rare that DWP would give a definitive anser to a hypothetical question. There are too many variables which are difficult to factor in.


    If she is acquiring a property to live in it's highly unlikely that it would be considered to be deprivation of capital.


    Just from interest, what asset would she be swapping?
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 8th Aug 18, 8:54 AM
    • 407 Posts
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    Sunny Intervals
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:54 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:54 AM
    It's very rare that DWP would give a definitive anser to a hypothetical question. There are too many variables which are difficult to factor in.

    If she is acquiring a property to live in it's highly unlikely that it would be considered to be deprivation of capital.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01

    I agree, and the response I received to my letter to them about buying a property with my savings, doing necessary works and buying non-premium furniture was basically just a longer version of this.


    I still think it's worth writing as a) we don't know what the asset is so there may be questions they want to ask (e.g. what would be considered sufficient evidence of its value vs the house value) and b) even without a definite yes/no and an absolute protection from DoC rules, it keeps everything above board, so there can be no accusations of her trying to do something sneaky/commit benefit fraud.
    • Teasedale
    • By Teasedale 8th Aug 18, 10:54 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Teasedale
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:54 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:54 AM
    Just from interest, what asset would she be swapping?
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Sorry, too autobiographical!
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 8th Aug 18, 10:57 AM
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    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:57 AM
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:57 AM
    Sorry, too autobiographical!
    Originally posted by Teasedale

    No problem. The question was really because many personal assets with the exception of another property would be unlikely to affect benefit entitlement. I'm also assuming she will be claiming Income Related benefit, as Contribution based ESA doesn't consider savings or other assets with the exception of any pension which is in payment.
    • Teasedale
    • By Teasedale 8th Aug 18, 11:01 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Teasedale
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:01 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:01 AM
    ...there may be questions they want to ask (e.g. what would be considered sufficient evidence of its value vs the house value)...
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals
    Good point, and I have it covered already.

    ...b) even without a definite yes/no and an absolute protection from DoC rules, it keeps everything above board, so there can be no accusations of her trying to do something sneaky/commit benefit fraud.
    Hmm, I don't see how it keeps everything above board. It might even arouse suspicion, in fact I suspect almost everything does arouse suspicion in the "official" mind.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 8th Aug 18, 11:10 AM
    • 29,964 Posts
    • 76,998 Thanks
    Mojisola
    My ex has an asset that she wants to swap for a house I own of equivalent market value. She would then be able to claim full ESA because her remaining capital would be under the limit.
    Originally posted by Teasedale
    No problem. The question was really because many personal assets with the exception of another property would be unlikely to affect benefit entitlement. I'm also assuming she will be claiming Income Related benefit, as Contribution based ESA doesn't consider savings or other assets with the exception of any pension which is in payment.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    This is obviously something that is counted as capital otherwise the ex would be able to claim full ESA now.
    • Sunny Intervals
    • By Sunny Intervals 8th Aug 18, 11:18 AM
    • 407 Posts
    • 1,294 Thanks
    Sunny Intervals
    Hmm, I don't see how it keeps everything above board. It might even arouse suspicion, in fact I suspect almost everything does arouse suspicion in the "official" mind.
    Originally posted by Teasedale

    Because they can't say she tried to hide what she was doing if she told them in advance and received a letter acknowledging what she was doing and saying it's unlikely it would be considered DoC.


    It's a***-covering, basically, for those of us who live in terror of being accused of fraud due to data matching or someone who doesn't like us making stuff up. Even though you're innocent, it's not something you want to go through, especially when you're ill.


    If she doesn't want to tell them in advance and she's happy to do it regardless of whether or not it increases her entitlement to income-based benefits, maybe make it clear what she's done when she calls up to get her entitlement reassessed. Personally, I'd prefer to have everything in writing, though.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 8th Aug 18, 2:11 PM
    • 5,453 Posts
    • 6,052 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    This is obviously something that is counted as capital otherwise the ex would be able to claim full ESA now.
    Originally posted by Mojisola

    With the reference to 'full ESA' I assume from that she currently has a live claim for ESA with reduced payment due to the asset she is planning to swap for the house. If that is the case, and the asset suddenly disappears, it will raise questions with ESA (or it should at least) so just answer the questions honestly. I'll repeat what I said earlier that if the existing asset is used to purchase a property to live in and it is her only property it shouldn't cause a problem.
    • Teasedale
    • By Teasedale 9th Aug 18, 6:15 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Teasedale
    If ... the asset suddenly disappears, it will raise questions with ESA (or it should at least) so just answer the questions honestly
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Clearly to make any change she will have to ask the DWP to consider the change of circumstances. IOW, she will raise the questions with DWP directly. Otherwise how on earth would they know?

    Which also makes writing a letter as Sunny suggested a bit OTT.

    I don't need anyone's advice to answer questions honestly, by the way.

    So thanks for your help folks, let's close this one now.
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