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  • FIRST POST
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 2:24 PM
    • 8Posts
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    Norma Norman
    Care Home fees.
    • #1
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:24 PM
    Care Home fees. 6th Aug 18 at 2:24 PM
    My Mother in Law suffers from dementia and lives in sheltered accommodation. She pays all her rent, care costs, etc.

    My wife is getting upset because the carers are not very good carers. They don't launder properly, don't clean the flat properly etc. We feel that it would be better if my wife did certain things like the above and say helped her have a shower things would be better. We would still leave a lot of things like taking her to and from meals in the resident lounge/dining room to the carers.
    Now, if my wife did this she would have to give up her part time job and that is not economically viable. So the thought is that if she took 500 per month to compensate for her loss of salary AND payment for providing care would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home. That is, would the Local Authority try to claw back the payments my wife would receive?
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Aug 18, 2:34 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:34 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:34 PM
    My Mother in Law suffers from dementia and lives in sheltered accommodation. She pays all her rent, care costs, etc.

    My wife is getting upset because the carers are not very good carers. They don't launder properly, don't clean the flat properly etc. We feel that it would be better if my wife did certain things like the above and say helped her have a shower things would be better. We would still leave a lot of things like taking her to and from meals in the resident lounge/dining room to the carers.
    Now, if my wife did this she would have to give up her part time job and that is not economically viable. So the thought is that if she took 500 per month to compensate for her loss of salary AND payment for providing care would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home. That is, would the Local Authority try to claw back the payments my wife would receive?
    Originally posted by Norma Norman

    Wow, she cant balance a part time job with a few hours there... that sounds believable. I'm sure the judge will think so too when she's on trial for theft!


    Some people....
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 2:37 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Norma Norman
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:37 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:37 PM
    Well, considering she also looks after a 93 year old blind and deaf Aunt, No she can't. And it would be more than a few hours. Whether or not you approve isn't the question. Also at the age of 64 the wife is not exactly the strongest to have such a high workload
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 6th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    • 29,598 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    My wife is getting upset because the carers are not very good carers.

    We feel that it would be better if my wife did certain things like the above and say helped her have a shower things would be better.

    Now, if my wife did this she would have to give up her part time job and that is not economically viable. So the thought is that if she took 500 per month to compensate for her loss of salary AND payment for providing care would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home.
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    Have you complained about the quality of care provided by the carers?

    One of my relatives has given up his job to care for his father but it's a formal arrangement with all laws complied with and taxes paid.

    How many hours would your wife by working for the 500 a month? If it will be 35+, she could look at claiming Carers Allowance (assuming her mother is claiming AA).

    She certainly can't expect 'compensation for loss of salary' from her mother!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • 16,882 Posts
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    elsien
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    It doesn't matter whether or not your wife is getting upset, if your MIL has capacity it's more about what she wants and whether or not she is happy. She may have different standards to your wife. Who does she want to help her shower? Some people would prefer it to be paid staff rather than close family.

    Your wife cannot take money just to compensate for her loss of salary.
    If she was able to agree how much time she would spend caring along with an appropriate hourly rate that is a slightly different situation but to prevent safeguarding alerts it would need to be able to be justified. . But again, does MIL have capacity and if not is there any sort of power of attorney in place?

    However if she is paying the setting to provide care and also paying your wife, that is doubling up and is unfair on her. You could explore the option of an alternative care provider however with many HWC settings they use their own staff and outsourcing isn't possible.
    If standards are not acceptable has MIL made a complaint, or if she's not able to do so then had someone done that on her behalf? Or raised it with social services if they are paying?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
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    Linton
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    How would your wife "take" the 500? I assume that she has power of attorney for mother and would use that to give herself some of her mother's money. If this is the case it would surely be legally dubious. A PoA must act solely for the benefit of the donor.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Aug 18, 2:45 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:45 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:45 PM
    Well, considering she also looks after a 93 year old blind and deaf Aunt, No she can't. And it would be more than a few hours. Whether or not you approve isn't the question. Also at the age of 64 the wife is not exactly the strongest to have such a high workload
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    No, whether or not I approve isn't the question.


    That's for a judge I mentioned....


    When it transpires that a daughter was taking 500 a month from her dementia ridden mother to apply some basic care - whilst she was already being cared for by (presumably) a licenced and accredited care company....
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 2:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Norma Norman
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:46 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:46 PM
    We have complained but nothing improves. It would be about 10+ hours a week. OK, "compensation for loss of salary AND payment for providing care" is the wrong expression . I'll just reduce that to payment for providing care.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 6th Aug 18, 2:49 PM
    • 29,598 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:49 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:49 PM
    We have complained but nothing improves. It would be about 10+ hours a week. OK, "compensation for loss of salary AND payment for providing care" is the wrong expression . I'll just reduce that to payment for providing care.
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    Your wife would then be an employee of your MIL and will have to comply with the relevant legislation.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Aug 18, 2:51 PM
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    Comms69
    We have complained but nothing improves. It would be about 10+ hours a week. OK, "compensation for loss of salary AND payment for providing care" is the wrong expression . I'll just reduce that to payment for providing care.
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    So approx. 12.50 an hour, to care for your own mum.


    Nice work if you can get it...
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 2:54 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Norma Norman
    Elsien, she has dementia. Mother in Law is always unhappy. She wants to be dead! My wife has joint Power of Attorney with her sister.

    My Mother in Law suffers from dementia and lives in sheltered accommodation. She pays all her rent, care costs, etc.

    So it's not as straight forward as saying what does she want.

    She would not be paying twice for care. What the carers would no longer be doing they would not be getting paid for.
    Last edited by Norma Norman; 06-08-2018 at 2:59 PM. Reason: Typo error
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 2:58 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Norma Norman
    Comms 69. The carers charge considerably more.
    Mojisola: Yes she would be an employee. Would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home. That is, would the Local Authority try to claw back the payments my wife would receive?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
    • 3,396 Thanks
    Comms69
    Comms 69. The carers charge considerably more.
    Mojisola: Yes she would be an employee. Would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home. That is, would the Local Authority try to claw back the payments my wife would receive?
    Originally posted by Norma Norman


    Carers do not make 12.50 per hour.


    The company may charge more but then they have large overheads, like public liability insurance, CQC regulations and so forth.
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 3:02 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Norma Norman
    Linton it would benefit the Mother. She would have a better quality of life.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 6th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
    • 1,453 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    Carrot007
    So approx. 12.50 an hour, to care for your own mum.


    Nice work if you can get it...
    Originally posted by Comms69

    Pretty poor pay for what is involved IMO.


    That's why the care is crap BTW.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 6th Aug 18, 3:09 PM
    • 29,598 Posts
    • 75,679 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Mojisola: Yes she would be an employee. Would this cause problems in the future when the time comes for her to enter a care home. That is, would the Local Authority try to claw back the payments my wife would receive?
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    No.

    But as she is her mother's attorney, it would be best to take advice about whether she can, effectively, employ herself (as she would be acting in her mother's place as the employer).

    It would probably be less messy to go for Carers Allowance if she will be caring for 35 hours or, if not, employ outside carers, if the home allows that.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Aug 18, 3:09 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
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    Comms69
    Pretty poor pay for what is involved IMO.


    That's why the care is crap BTW.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    25,000 a year FT equiv - to care for your own parent??
    • Norma Norman
    • By Norma Norman 6th Aug 18, 3:10 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Norma Norman
    It would cost my MIL less.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 6th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    • 29,598 Posts
    • 75,679 Thanks
    Mojisola
    25,000 a year FT equiv - to care for your own parent??
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Why not?

    My relative gives his father much better consistent care than he was getting with the 'professional' carers. He gave up work in order to be available and his Dad much prefers having him around.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 6th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    • 16,882 Posts
    • 42,618 Thanks
    elsien

    She would not be paying twice for care. What the carers would no longer be doing they would not be getting paid for.
    Originally posted by Norma Norman
    Are you sure about that? Have you had the conversation with the provider? I think that you would need to check the practicalities if you've not already done so. Plus a plan B for if your wife is unwell/on holiday/not able to attend as arranged. Would they be willing to step in with short term support in those situations?

    I don't think the LA would be looking to claw back money for care homes in these circumstances but you do need to demonstrate that any decisions are equitable and in MILS best interests.
    Last edited by elsien; 06-08-2018 at 3:17 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
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