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  • FIRST POST
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 27th Jul 18, 4:12 AM
    • 21Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Drivebycar
    Letter of Claim - Residential Parking Space
    • #1
    • 27th Jul 18, 4:12 AM
    Letter of Claim - Residential Parking Space 27th Jul 18 at 4:12 AM
    Hello All,

    I have spent the last 3 hours reading through the newbies post, searching the forum for similar situations and also on parking prankster as there were more relevant situations regarding residential parking charge notices. This was in an effort to avoid clogging up the forum with another post covering the same ground, however, I haven't been able to find another thread covering my specific situation, though if anyone is able to point me in the direction of one I am more than happy to take the initiative!

    So my situation is as follows:

    I am currently being chased for 3 parking charge notices issued for "failure to clearly display a valid permit". I am now at the "Letter of Claim" stage with BW Legal, but I will start with what I have done so far.

    I initially responded trying to get Norwich Traffic Control to drop the fines once Direct Correction Bailiffs sent their letters, my defence was as follows -

    To whom it may concern,

    With reference to Parking Charge Notices - 4000xx, 4001xx, 4001xx, 4023xx

    I am a resident at XXX and as such have the entitlement to park in Space xx as detailed below in a letter from XX Co Property Management Company. Also stated is the fact I have had valid car parking permits issued to my property for every year since purchase, up to and including 2017.

    I understand that Property Management Company have the agreement with NTC in order to prevent non-residents parking in residents allocated parking spaces.

    However, as mentioned above I am a resident in XX, so I look forward to the confirmation that these fines will be taken no further.

    Many Thanks,
    Oliver

    !!!59154;
    NC

    Norwich Traffic Control <norwichtrafficcontrol1@gmail.com>
    Mon 31/07/2017, 10:50
    Good Morning,

    Further to your email we can confirm you currently have 4 parking charges for your vehicle all for failing to display a valid permit.

    I can further confirm that this is the first written communication we have received from you in relation to these charges despite all 4 charges being affixed to your vehicle and 3 of the tickets having subsequent letters reminding you about the charges.

    The first three charges have been referred - as you will be aware - to Direct collection Bailiffs Limited for collection.

    Whilst the email confirms you are a leaseholder it does not negate the requirement to display a valid permit when parked on the estate.

    The last charge which is within the appeal period will be processed bu the previous 3 charges are far beyond the appeal period and will remain outstanding.

    I have copied in XX for continuity and for his information.

    Regards
    NTC


    They then sent evidence of the 4 photos showing no permit in the screen. The permit was displayed in a side window - the NTC signage contract stated the front left of the windscreen was the place to display the permit.

    As a resident it states in the lease my right to park in the designated space.


    So now I am at the Letter of Claim stage, which I understand is not yet a "Letter Before Claim" or any incarnation of such, however I know that this Letter of Claim requires a response, which I am looking to draft now in an effort to get them all dropped before court proceedings which are being threatened.

    I have until the 26th August to respond.

    As I have mentioned I am happy to go away and do any level of reading if there is an example of this situation before.

    The big issue is that I am currently travelling abroad for the forseeable future, so access to documents is difficult and I would love to avoid spending 1200GBP on a round trip ticket back to England just to fight these cowboys in court!

    Thank you in advance for your help.
Page 2
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 30th Jul 18, 1:10 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    Does the above response look good for a first step? Then bring all the evidence / defence in on the next contact?
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 4th Aug 18, 1:48 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    So I have just received a response on email from bw legal and wondering if I should respond to confirm this information? Any advice would be helpful.

    “Good Afternoon



    Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted on file.

    Should you wish to discuss this matter via email, please confirm the following:



    1.Please complete your full name



    2.Please provide first line of your address



    3.Please provide your postcode



    You can also contact us by signing In or registering to our Online Portal at www.bwlegal.co.uk.



    Should you have any queries please contact our office on 0113 323 4485.



    Kind Regards,



    bwlegal”
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 5th Aug 18, 10:27 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    As you have 4 tickets you should question the DVLA as to who obtained your details (using your VRM) and when. The PPC needs to have accessed your data on 4 separate occasions in order to invoke Keeper Liability. Give that date range from the first parking incident to 28 days past the fourth incident.

    Email the DVLA giving your full name and postal address, the full name and address on the V5C (logbook) and the vehicle's registration mark (VRM).

    SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    Turning to your response to the LBC - could you give us the date of the post from which you copied that, because some of the references in your reply have been superseded.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas


    DVOA response is as follows -

    hxxp://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg500/Drivebycar/7E1E3177-A820-4192-AD61-E3DF0A841948.jpg
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Aug 18, 10:29 AM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,229 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Here is your link made live (after checking): -
    http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg500/Drivebycar/7E1E3177-A820-4192-AD61-E3DF0A841948.jpg


    There seems to be only three separate enquiries!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Aug 18, 10:36 AM
    • 19,709 Posts
    • 31,185 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Were the dates you gave to the DVLA sufficiently 'long' enough to include the date of issue of the 4th ticket?
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 6th Aug 18, 11:43 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    Were the dates you gave to the DVLA sufficiently 'long' enough to include the date of issue of the 4th ticket?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Yes they were at least up till 28 days after the tickets

    The dates on the notices where 21st & 22nd of April, and 1st May. So I asked for up until the 1st of June
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 30th Aug 18, 8:15 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    Their response is as follows:

    Good Morning



    Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted on file.



    Our Client's cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park, by failing to display a valid Pay & Display Ticket (PDT).


    Our Client is not pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.


    Our Client does intend to reply on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.


    The details of the claim are that your vehicle parked without displaying a valid PDT.


    The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which you have been issued with is for a breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the terms and conditions which apply. It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.


    This is not a claim for trespass.


    Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.


    Our Client is under no obligation to supply this.


    As established members of the Independent Parking Committee, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks ('Code of Practice'). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.


    Accordingly, the full Balance is Due.



    Please contact us within 7 days of the date of this email to discuss repayment.



    Should you have any queries please contact our office on 0113 323 4485, or alternatively sign in or register on our Online Customer Portal at www.bwlegal.co.uk.



    Kind Regards,



    bwlegal
    • B789
    • By B789 30th Aug 18, 9:24 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    B789
    Our Client's cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park, by failing to display a valid Pay & Display Ticket (PDT).
    Originally posted by Drivebycar
    Are you dealing with someone with the intellectual capacity of a brick? Sorry, that’s a rhetorical question as we know the answer is yes. Apologies to all bricks for the association.

    Please, please take this all the way, including a counter claim for harassment by incompetents.
    Last edited by B789; 30-08-2018 at 9:26 AM.
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 30th Aug 18, 9:30 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    Are you dealing with someone with the intellectual capacity of a brick? Sorry, that’s a rhetorical question as we know the answer is yes. Apologies to all bricks for the association.

    Please, please take this all the way, including a counter claim for harassment by incompetents.
    Originally posted by B789
    Oh I absolutely plan to counter claim when I am back in the UK. However for now I would settle for getting this dropped and enjoying my travels in peace!

    What would you/any forum expert advise as the next step here?

    Thanks in advance for your help
    Last edited by Drivebycar; 30-08-2018 at 9:34 AM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th Aug 18, 9:35 AM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,503 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    "Our Client is not pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.


    Our Client does intend to reply on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012."

    These two statements are mutually exclusive


    Your obvious next step is to respond to them, pointing out their complete nonsense of a reply, and requiring they actually read and note your original letter AND cirucmstances, as they have so far clearly failed to perform their duties with any reasonable skill and care.
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 5th Oct 18, 12:40 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    So BW legal have chosen to ignore my second response to them outlining the carelessness with which they responded to my initial contact.

    Further to this I have just received 2 county court claims regarding 1 PCN each.

    I have completed the AOS so I have some more time to draft my defence and am farily comfortable to do this as there are some great examples similar to my case at the moment.

    My question is - If I wish to counter-claim for damages / tresspassing / breach of data protection etc, am I able to do this at a later date, or does this need to be processed as a counter claim within the 2 claims that are active now?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Oct 18, 12:57 PM
    • 10,238 Posts
    • 10,131 Thanks
    The Deep
    Obviously BWL have lost the plot, send a copy of their letters to the SRA pointing out the errors, they are clearly unfit to practice Law, and are wasting your time.

    http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

    I am not an expert, but I believe that counter-claiming now costs less than later. It also prevents them from folding, and walking away scot free. You may also have a good chance of claiming costs for unreasonable behaviour under CPR27.14(2)(g).
    Last edited by The Deep; 05-10-2018 at 1:02 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Oct 18, 1:45 PM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,503 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    To COUNTER claim you ha ve to COUNTER the CLAIM, otherwise you are launching your own, new claim at a totally different date...

    You do that wehn you respond. Post 2, newbies thread

    OF course you will be requesitng the court combines these two claims, about the same site, same vehicle etc into one claim - BWL are abusing the court process and clearly attempting double recovery here.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Oct 18, 1:52 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    What do the Particulars of Claim (on the left) say EXACTLY (minus only the VRN)?

    What date were the claims issued (top right)?

    Do you actually have an allocated bay? How do you know/what proves this?

    Are you a tenant or a leaseholder and what does your lease or AST say about your right to park? And rights of third parties (or not)?

    Were you there before the parking firm? What date did you move in and when did they rock up? what letter was circulated, and did you always have to display a permit or was this foisted on you after unfettered parking rights existed before?
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 5th Oct 18, 5:02 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    What do the Particulars of Claim (on the left) say EXACTLY (minus only the VRN)?

    The claimants claim is for the sum of 100GBP being onies due from the defendant to the claimant in respect of a parking charge notice PCN issued on 01/05/2017 (issue date) at 17:47:54 at *Residence*

    The PCN relates to *Car Make* under registration *VRN*.
    The terms of the PCN allowed the defendant 28 days from the issue date to pay the PCN, but the defendant failed to do so.
    Despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
    The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to secion 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 01/05/2017 to 24/09/2018 being an amount of 10.24GBP.
    The claimant also claims 75GBP contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions.

    - The other claim is exactly the same only with different date/time obviously


    What date were the claims issued (top right)?

    25 Sept 2018

    Do you actually have an allocated bay? How do you know/what proves this?

    Yes i have an allocated bay, I have the details from the management company to prove the parking spaces plan, and also the allocation to my flat of that particular space number. In addition to the lease agreement.

    Are you a tenant or a leaseholder and what does your lease or AST say about your right to park? And rights of third parties (or not)?

    I am the leaseholder, the lease says as follows:

    Right to Park Cars:
    The right in common with the landlord and all others entitled to the like right to park not more than one car on one of the car parking spaces but only on those spaces allocated to the tenant by the landlord as shown shaded yellow on plan 3 (Which I have) but for the avoidance of doubt such right shall be subject to availability between the hours of 9am and 5.30pm monday to friday with each space being allocated at the landlords sole discretion.

    The use of Car Parking Spaces:
    The Lessee must use the car parking spaces for car parking only of a single roadworthy private car used by the lessee or an occupier of the flat or by a visitor to the flat and must not carry out any servicing repairs or painting of any car on the car parking spaces


    Were you there before the parking firm? What date did you move in and when did they rock up? what letter was circulated, and did you always have to display a permit or was this foisted on you after unfettered parking rights existed before?

    I am not sure. However I have received no letter or correspondance with regard to changing the lease to require a permit be displayed.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thank you for all the responses, please find my answers above ^
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Oct 18, 5:19 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    but for the avoidance of doubt such right shall be subject to availability between the hours of 9am and 5.30pm monday to friday
    What does that mean, in practice? Did your Solicitor explain it when you bought the flat?

    Does it mean:

    - you can only actually park & exercise your rights between those times

    or that

    - during those hours it's a free for all with other cars able to park there and so it's not exclusive during that time? i.e. first come first served during those times, because it's shared with an office or shop or something?
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 5th Oct 18, 5:32 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    I don't know exactly it wasn't explained to me.

    It isn't shared with an office or shop, purely a residential area so I would assume the first point.

    However, both PCNs were issued after 5.30pm and thus in the period of time which it is my right to park there.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Oct 18, 5:33 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    also the allocation to my flat of that particular space number. In addition to the lease agreement.
    Is the car parking space listed under the premises section of the lease?

    Or separately in a Schedule about rights?

    What does it say (anywhere) in the lease docs about the Rights of Third Parties Act?
    • Drivebycar
    • By Drivebycar 5th Oct 18, 6:01 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Drivebycar
    I was sent a plan showing the parking space, and then a seperate document detailing the list of spaces and which flat they have been allocated to from the Management Company. The plan was included in the lease of part under the plans section in definitions.

    The other document was sent to me when I asked for evidence of the allocation called the Schedule of Car Park Allocations

    I havent seen anything about the Rights of Third Parties Act but will check later when I get home.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Oct 18, 7:10 PM
    • 9,769 Posts
    • 10,126 Thanks
    KeithP
    With a Claim Issue Date of 25th September, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 29th October 2018 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to hone any Defence to perfection but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
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