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  • FIRST POST
    • glosandy
    • By glosandy 16th Jul 18, 8:31 PM
    • 48Posts
    • 26Thanks
    glosandy
    PCM UK - Whittle Square, Gloucester
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 18, 8:31 PM
    PCM UK - Whittle Square, Gloucester 16th Jul 18 at 8:31 PM
    Well, they say things come in threes so here's the third (and hopefully final!) PCN I've been asked to help with. The circumstances are nearly identical to the other two threads I have running on Whittle Square. Only real difference this time is the location of the parked car, but to my mind is even more clearcut.

    Issue this time is the fact that the first postal notification was not acknowledged (Postal Notification of Parking Charge). Today the person in question received a Keeper Liability letter (headed Parking Charge Keeper Liability) from PCM UK, amount due £100. But based on my reading of the newbie thread this should be standard procedure, I think?

    As PCM is an IPC member we should be looking to lodge appeal (the option is still available on their web portal), based on the standard template available (TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING ). At this point, should we also be including the defence of signage/bay markings etc.?

    Thanks again.

    Glosandy
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,899 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    depends if its the keeper or the driver who is appealing

    generally speaking , we tell people NOT to amend the template letter

    so if the template is being amended , be sure to know why and only add defence evidence if it PROVES that this person appealing is 100% in the right

    also bear in mind that driver appeals do not have the protection of POFA2012 , NOT NOW NOR IN THE FUTURE

    so if a PPC has failed POFA2012 then be very wary of implying who was driving , sometimes what happened on the day has little bearing on the result , a ppc will almost always reject an appeal as there is no profit in acceptance


    however, if they passed the POFA2012 rules on wording and timescales, then a keeper can be held accountable and so sometimes a driver appeal can be a good idea (but there has to be good first person evidence if a win is required)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jul 18, 11:09 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 11:09 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 11:09 PM
    Probably too late to appeal but try anyway and whilst normal IAS is worth a try for PCM cases, IMHO, DO NOT accept the 'non-standard' IAS version that costs money, to lose.

    IMHO as you are appealing late that's the only *offer* you will get. Ignore that, then come back at claim stage.
    • glosandy
    • By glosandy 24th Jul 18, 5:27 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    glosandy
    • #4
    • 24th Jul 18, 5:27 PM
    • #4
    • 24th Jul 18, 5:27 PM
    Update:
    Online appeal lodged, as per standard wording.
    • glosandy
    • By glosandy 7th Aug 18, 11:48 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    glosandy
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:48 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:48 PM
    Update:
    Appeal rejected, based on:
    clear signage
    parked in non designated area

    Rejection letter details:
    Parking is not permitted on access roads, grass verges, areas marked with cross hatched markings or areas in which parking is not designated.

    Options presented now:
    Pay
    IAS process

    Obviously paying is out. Realise the general advice is to ignore the IAS process, which is understood. However, it still doesn't feel right. I'd like to respond to PCM's rejection letter with the following:

    Dear Idiots (OK, strike that bit),

    PCN XXXX
    Notification of Appeal Outcome dated XXXX

    I acknowledge receipt of the above correspondence, informing me of the rejection of the above appeal.

    I do not believe you have any grounds to pursue either the Driver or Keeper of this vehicle based on the summary evidence presented in your letter, which should be obvious to you from your recent failings to secure judgements in the County Court for this location. As such no payment will be made for this parking charge.

    I note your offer to refer this to the Independent Appeals Service. As this is not obligatory, this would appear to be a waste of my time “futilely going through the motions” according to an IPC firm’s mistakenly shared email that is in the public domain. This is due to the fact that the IAS is widely held to be a misnomer and is not an independent appeals service at all, and is well known as a “kangaroo court” created for the benefit of IPC members, in order to attempt to offer a false perception that you have offered an independent, impartial appeals service.

    Parliament is well aware of the conflicts of interest preventing any IPC firm from being considered to be offering anything like a fair appeals process. Therefore any socially and politically aware County Court Judge would realise you offer no truly independent or transparently fair appeal facility whatsoever.

    On this basis, I will not be pursuing the IAS appeal, and will await your next correspondence.

    Up yours,
    (leave this in??)

    I still feel the driver/keeper has a strong case regarding definition of restricted areas, signage and bay markings so we'll be taking this all the way.

    Regards, Glosandy
    • glosandy
    • By glosandy 5th Oct 18, 7:39 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    glosandy
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 18, 7:39 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 18, 7:39 PM
    UPDATE:
    Letter from TRACE DEBT RECOVERY received today. All standard stuff, and will be suitably ignored.
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