Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 13th Jul 18, 10:47 PM
    • 42Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Warren1989
    Supply for dishwasher and washing machine from copper pipes?
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 18, 10:47 PM
    Supply for dishwasher and washing machine from copper pipes? 13th Jul 18 at 10:47 PM
    Hi all,

    Had the plumbing done for the sink, which is going above these pipes.


    The washing machine is going to the left and dishwasher to the right.

    What's the best way to get these supplied with water? Should I cut the plastic pipe and add a feed in that way or can I do it nicely from the ends of the copper piping?
    Last edited by Warren1989; 15-07-2018 at 9:58 AM.
Page 1
    • that
    • By that 13th Jul 18, 11:27 PM
    • 524 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    that
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 18, 11:27 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 18, 11:27 PM
    most appliances use only cold water these days.

    if you cut the plastic you will need accessible stop valves. What about drainage and power?

    Hopefully the oven/dish washer /washing machine are not all on the same circuit
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 14th Jul 18, 12:17 AM
    • 5,387 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    southcoastrgi
    • #3
    • 14th Jul 18, 12:17 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Jul 18, 12:17 AM
    That waste pipe looks high for the sink trap
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • tonyh66
    • By tonyh66 14th Jul 18, 6:28 AM
    • 1,223 Posts
    • 858 Thanks
    tonyh66
    • #4
    • 14th Jul 18, 6:28 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Jul 18, 6:28 AM
    I would take the plastic off the copper and change the connector to a T, I would also cut the plastic where I want the other pipe and add another T. If you need hot water for the appliances do the same for that pipe.

    Connecting them to the waste is going to be 'interesting' for you.
    • Ruski
    • By Ruski 14th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 928 Thanks
    Ruski
    • #5
    • 14th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    Do it from the copper ONCE the unit has been installed - keeping all valves accessible.

    (Agreed about height of waste - drop it down now while you have access if you can.)


    HTH

    Russ
    Perfection takes time: don't expect miracles in a day
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Jul 18, 9:26 AM
    • 33,076 Posts
    • 19,948 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 14th Jul 18, 9:26 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Jul 18, 9:26 AM
    if this plumbing has just been done why were there no takes off for appliances put in at the same time?

    This could have been after the service valve or before, each having a service valve

    nearly all appliances are cold fill these days.


    Also be careful with the depth as those pipes will stop an appliance getting pushed right back and may protrude from the unit run.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 14th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
    • 6,746 Posts
    • 18,134 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
    Connecting them to the waste is going to be 'interesting' for you.
    Originally posted by tonyh66
    I'd guess the plastic bag on the ground contains a sink trap with twin appliance connectors... if not then the OP needs to obtain one.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 15th Jul 18, 9:44 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Warren1989
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 18, 9:44 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jul 18, 9:44 AM
    I'd guess the plastic bag on the ground contains a sink trap with twin appliance connectors... if not then the OP needs to obtain one.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I have one of these already, and a long waste pipe for the dishwasher so that it reaches to under the sink.

    I think I am sorted regarding the waste from the appliances due to having these, right?
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 15th Jul 18, 9:51 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Warren1989
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 18, 9:51 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jul 18, 9:51 AM
    if this plumbing has just been done why were there no takes off for appliances put in at the same time?

    This could have been after the service valve or before, each having a service valve

    nearly all appliances are cold fill these days.


    Also be careful with the depth as those pipes will stop an appliance getting pushed right back and may protrude from the unit run.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Yes - it was just done. There must have been a miscommunication since we spoke about the dishwasher and washing machine, even when he started the job. I wasn't there when he finished and he hasn't replied to me about how he envisioned the wm/dw being connected. It's very frustrating!

    This was the original brief "Extension of copper cold and hot pipes and waste pipe to new sink position. Adding in provision for dishwasher and washing machine either side"
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 15th Jul 18, 9:54 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Warren1989
    most appliances use only cold water these days.

    if you cut the plastic you will need accessible stop valves. What about drainage and power?

    Hopefully the oven/dish washer /washing machine are not all on the same circuit
    Originally posted by that
    Good point. There wouldn't be an accessible stop value if I cut the plastic.

    You're right, it is only cold water I need.

    They are on the same circuit but the electrician has checked my appliances and assured me there is enough something such that you would need to run everything, with all 4 hobs on for a week before it took too much power?
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 15th Jul 18, 10:10 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Warren1989
    That waste pipe looks high for the sink trap
    Originally posted by southcoastrgi
    What do you base it off? There will be laminate flooring with some underlay. The plinth for the kitchen units is 160mm, and floor units are 701mm I believe.

    It is a McAlpine Universal Space Saver Plumbing Kit, I just did some rough measurements and it looks like it should just about be OK.
    • that
    • By that 15th Jul 18, 10:45 AM
    • 524 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    that
    They are on the same circuit but the electrician has checked my appliances and assured me there is enough something such that you would need to run everything, with all 4 hobs on for a week before it took too much power?
    Originally posted by Warren1989
    So hobs too from there

    I would suspect the hob to be on its own circuit. However think there is a good chance that you could have two or more of your units on at once. OK some peoples ovens are on a separate circuit too, so for argument I will guess yours too? Leaving the dishwasher and washing machine.

    if both the dishwasher and washing machine.have a standard 2000 watt element and are on at the same time, both doing a hot wash, that is 20 amps on that circuit

    being a nit picker, on the current setup where the drainage pipe meets the wall by the sink, that L-bend I would make into a T-bend with a waste access port on one side and it will make drain maintenance far easier. If it expands, put in at least one access point, and possibly a second at the end which is out of view where it hits a down pipe
    • phill99
    • By phill99 15th Jul 18, 12:02 PM
    • 8,201 Posts
    • 7,395 Thanks
    phill99
    if this plumbing has just been done why were there no takes off for appliances put in at the same time?

    This could have been after the service valve or before, each having a service valve

    nearly all appliances are cold fill these days.


    Also be careful with the depth as those pipes will stop an appliance getting pushed right back and may protrude from the unit run.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    I fit kitchens for a living. We put a basic hot and cold feed in and then put feeds for appliances in once the kitchen is in. Then you know exact locations etc.
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
    • JohnB47
    • By JohnB47 15th Jul 18, 12:31 PM
    • 1,137 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    JohnB47
    Could I raise another point here? Recently I've become aware that, over the years, the waste pipes in my house become really bunged up with a slimey gunge and the only way to fully remove this is by 'rodding' them out. Those caustic/foamy solutions you buy to clean drains are completely useless, in my experience.

    I made up a couple of tools to do this, one using the sort of flexible waste cleaner cables you can buy and the other using cable pulling rods (also called cable access kits). For each I made up my own ends, incorporating pieces of sponge. I've used these now and they really do clear the pipes well and this will not need done now for another year or two.

    The reason I'm saying this is that, to do this you need to be able to get the tools into the waste pipes and also be able to push them fully along the whole length. You have a really long waste pipe there and I'm wondering if it would be possible for you to build-in, before you put units in place, good access points into the pipes. Also, I see that right angle bends have been fitted rather than a more curved bend, which would allow a flexible rod to get around.

    I wish I was at the stage you are at and could really think about how I could get physical rods up that pipe - from one or other end or both, to really get them cleaned out. Then I could build that into the design by fitting plastic bends with a sweep and bends that incorporate access points. Or maybe use compression jointed fittings rather than glued-in ones, so that I could dismantle parts to clean and to allow access further on.

    If you don't do this, in about three years time you'll be throwing money down those drains using various liquid solutions in a futile effort to clean them.

    Just a thought.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 15th Jul 18, 1:59 PM
    • 6,746 Posts
    • 18,134 Thanks
    EachPenny
    If you don't do this, in about three years time you'll be throwing money down those drains using various liquid solutions in a futile effort to clean them.
    Originally posted by JohnB47
    The horrible gunge usually forms because the waste pipes have been fitted too 'flat', so the water doesn't drain away quickly enough (nor with enough energy) to keep them clean. A flat fall doesn't create the turbulent conditions which keeps the gungy stuff in suspension and washes away any gunge which has been deposited.

    I noticed (but wasn't originally going to comment) that the OP's waste pipe has been installed with a rather generous fall... so gunge-wise they should be ok, but might find the pipes are a bit noisy.

    Some of the grey gunge is caused by excess use of fabric conditioner in the washing machine, so if it is a problem in a waste/drain serving a WM then it might be worth checking the correct dosing of fabric conditioner is always being used (with the concentrated versions it is easy to over dose).

    The other cause might be fat being put down the sink... this is a real no-no if your waste/drainage pipes don't have a good fall.

    Your points about building in access facilities are still valid though, it never hurts to think of the future.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 15th Jul 18, 3:12 PM
    • 3,102 Posts
    • 2,177 Thanks
    EssexExile
    Gunge usually collects at bends. It's always handy to have access to any bends then they can be pulled apart & cleaned when necessary.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • adonis
    • By adonis 15th Jul 18, 3:46 PM
    • 799 Posts
    • 743 Thanks
    adonis
    Another thing is I was told the hot pipe should be above the cold pipe and the pipes at least 50mm apart.
    • JohnB47
    • By JohnB47 15th Jul 18, 5:13 PM
    • 1,137 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    JohnB47
    The horrible gunge usually forms because the waste pipes have been fitted too 'flat', so the water doesn't drain away quickly enough (nor with enough energy) to keep them clean. A flat fall doesn't create the turbulent conditions which keeps the gungy stuff in suspension and washes away any gunge which has been deposited.

    I noticed (but wasn't originally going to comment) that the OP's waste pipe has been installed with a rather generous fall... so gunge-wise they should be ok, but might find the pipes are a bit noisy.

    Some of the grey gunge is caused by excess use of fabric conditioner in the washing machine, so if it is a problem in a waste/drain serving a WM then it might be worth checking the correct dosing of fabric conditioner is always being used (with the concentrated versions it is easy to over dose).

    The other cause might be fat being put down the sink... this is a real no-no if your waste/drainage pipes don't have a good fall.

    Your points about building in access facilities are still valid though, it never hurts to think of the future.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I've found that the gunge builds up even on vertical pipes - particularly when the pipe is outside. Also, I've found this in the bath waste pipe, so no fat or fabric conditioner.

    My next plan is to redo the pipework under the bathroom sink and kitchen sink, so that I can more easily dismantle and rod it out.

    I'm also planning to run a separate pipe and trap for the washing machine. The kitchen installers connected the sink and washing machine to the same trap, so the sink makes a real racket when the washing machine is draining. The fast flow of water pulls the water down from the trap and creates a loud glug glug noise. We had separate pipe work and traps before and it never made that racket.
    • Warren1989
    • By Warren1989 15th Jul 18, 5:51 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Warren1989
    So hobs too from there

    I would suspect the hob to be on its own circuit. However think there is a good chance that you could have two or more of your units on at once. OK some peoples ovens are on a separate circuit too, so for argument I will guess yours too? Leaving the dishwasher and washing machine.

    if both the dishwasher and washing machine.have a standard 2000 watt element and are on at the same time, both doing a hot wash, that is 20 amps on that circuit

    being a nit picker, on the current setup where the drainage pipe meets the wall by the sink, that L-bend I would make into a T-bend with a waste access port on one side and it will make drain maintenance far easier. If it expands, put in at least one access point, and possibly a second at the end which is out of view where it hits a down pipe
    Originally posted by that
    I am probably just wrong with what I am telling you that he said.

    I'm sure it's fine, the electrician has plenty of qualifications, good reviews, is a member of a body and has been in the trade a long time, so I'm not worried. But thanks for your concern.

    I'm just going to contact a different plumber to do the last of the work and let him figure out the best approach.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

104Posts Today

1,751Users online

Martin's Twitter