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  • FIRST POST
    • teabag29
    • By teabag29 5th Jul 18, 12:07 AM
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    teabag29
    Advice please universal credit query
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:07 AM
    Advice please universal credit query 5th Jul 18 at 12:07 AM
    My partner and I will be moving in together in September. Currently I am on income support with 3 children and on pip. My area is not a uc area yet but will be on July 18th.
    My partner is currently claiming uc (in the wrag group) and pip, he!!!8217;s been on uc for 6 months next week.

    Once we move in together and I add him to my income support claim and make a new tax credits claim will I change over to uc as it will be rolled out in my area by then and partner has been on it OR will I stay on tax credits and income support because I have 3 children and never been on uc myself and so it wouldn!!!8217;t apply to me?

    If I move to uc it looks like I!!!8217;ll be losing 200 a week, this is huge.
Page 1
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 6:21 AM
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    huckster
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 6:21 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 6:21 AM
    Currently UC does not apply if you gave 3 or more children, so not sure you will have a joint UC claim with your partner.

    To be honest, not sure exactly how DWP would require benefits to be changed.

    What I would suggest that you do is to contact Citizens Advice with all of the information and see if they can find out from DWP how they want you to proceed with benefit changes. Citizens Advice do have good contacts within DWP, so should be able to obtain an answer for you in writing. This should then make it easier.

    If you don't do this, I think you will have problems.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 5th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
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    Icequeen99
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    I think you will have to join your partner's UC award which would end your existing benefit claims. The rules currently say that those with 3 or more children have to claim tax credits (and other benefits like income support) unless certain conditions exist and my understanding is that as your partner has had a UC claim in the last 6 months that is one of the exceptions.

    I would get some advice on this from a local agency.

    IQ
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 5th Jul 18, 10:30 AM
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    pmlindyloo
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:30 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 10:30 AM
    An interesting question.

    I am wondering if your partner would be able to end his Universal Credit claim because of a change of circumstances (ie moving in with you) and be added to your legacy benefits.

    My reasoning is that when he moves in with you, you would not then meet the criteria for Universal Credit as you would be a family with 3 children.

    There are special circumstances where a Universal Credit claim can be ended and I am wondering whether this is one of them.

    Since this is particularly complicated I would like to suggest that your partner either writes the circumstances in his journal and asks the question or telephones the Universal Credit helpline. If he telephones he may have to ask for a call back from a decision maker. Be sure to get the answer in writing.

    QUOTE

    If you already have an online account and journal you should call the Universal Credit full service helpline on:
    Telephone: 0800 328 5644
    Textphone: 0800 328 1344
    8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday (closed on bank and public holidays). Calls are free.

    Whatever the reply is I would ask also that they quote the legislation which affects such a change of circumstances particularly since this will mean a considerable loss of income to the household.

    Please let us know how you get on.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 5th Jul 18, 11:40 AM
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    Icequeen99
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:40 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:40 AM
    An interesting question.

    I am wondering if your partner would be able to end his Universal Credit claim because of a change of circumstances (ie moving in with you) and be added to your legacy benefits.

    My reasoning is that when he moves in with you, you would not then meet the criteria for Universal Credit as you would be a family with 3 children.

    There are special circumstances where a Universal Credit claim can be ended and I am wondering whether this is one of them.

    Since this is particularly complicated I would like to suggest that your partner either writes the circumstances in his journal and asks the question or telephones the Universal Credit helpline. If he telephones he may have to ask for a call back from a decision maker. Be sure to get the answer in writing.

    QUOTE

    If you already have an online account and journal you should call the Universal Credit full service helpline on:
    Telephone: 0800 328 5644
    Textphone: 0800 328 1344
    8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday (closed on bank and public holidays). Calls are free.

    Whatever the reply is I would ask also that they quote the legislation which affects such a change of circumstances particularly since this will mean a considerable loss of income to the household.

    Please let us know how you get on.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Worth a try, but i'm pretty sure that the legislation says his claim becomes joint and the 3 child legislation allows that because it has an exception if one partner has had UC in the last 6 months.

    IQ
    • teabag29
    • By teabag29 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
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    teabag29
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    So far Ive spoken to 3 different UC and benefit advisors and nobody seems to know the answer, 1 says Id have to join his uc claim, 1 says Id still be entitled to the tax credits/income support option (but instead of getting my disability premium he!!!8217;d become my career and get carers allowance) and the third one said she thinks Id claim esa but really doesnt know, try ringing cab. If UC advisors dont know then how will anyone else know
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 8:53 PM
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    huckster
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:53 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 8:53 PM
    Which is why I said contact CAB, as otherwise you will get the run around. CAB will ask DWP for you and get a definitive response.

    I agree with pmlindyhoo, that your partner is more likely to have to stop their UC claim and move to legacy benefits. I am not sure a joint UC claim would work, as UC does not allow new claims with 3 children or more, so you would be blocked from applying. The only way around it would be to enter just 2 children when you set up a UC claim and then register the 3rd child afterwards. But then you would be restricted to children element for 2 children, so may be worse off than tax credits.

    What is the housing situation ? Does your partner have housing rent covered by UC ? Will you be renting a house with more bedrooms and expect benefits to increase to cover extra cost ?

    Often with benefit decisions, housing can be an important factor in deciding way forward. DWP are not going to want a split claim for housing, with one person getting help from UC and the other getting council housing benefit.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 5th Jul 18, 9:12 PM
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    Icequeen99
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:12 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:12 PM
    Which is why I said contact CAB, as otherwise you will get the run around. CAB will ask DWP for you and get a definitive response.

    I agree with pmlindyhoo, that your partner is more likely to have to stop their UC claim and move to legacy benefits. I am not sure a joint UC claim would work, as UC does not allow new claims with 3 children or more, so you would be blocked from applying. The only way around it would be to enter just 2 children when you set up a UC claim and then register the 3rd child afterwards. But then you would be restricted to children element for 2 children, so may be worse off than tax credits.

    What is the housing situation ? Does your partner have housing rent covered by UC ? Will you be renting a house with more bedrooms and expect benefits to increase to cover extra cost ?

    Often with benefit decisions, housing can be an important factor in deciding way forward. DWP are not going to want a split claim for housing, with one person getting help from UC and the other getting council housing benefit.
    Originally posted by huckster
    I'm sorry, but you are giving incorrect information here. People with 3 or more children must claim UC in certain circumstances - there is no complete block on claiming with 3 or more children in full service areas and having looked at the legislation again this seems to be one of those cases. You have to claim UC if you have 3 or more children and 1 of the claimants has had a UC claim in the last 6 months.

    However it is complex, so the OP should get some advice but I don't think it is helpful to make statements without any caveats.

    IQ
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
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    Alice Holt
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Jul 18, 9:20 PM
    Teabag29,

    When you see CAB, I'm not sure if this query would be covered on their information system.
    If the DWP can't tell you.........

    So, ask the CAB adviser if they can contact their central Expert Advice Team by email. This will not give you a instant reply, but should give you a definitive answer with the legislation details to quote at DWP staff.
    The other source of advice may be CPAG - they have an advice line professionals can use. So it may be possible your CAB adviser could ring CPAG.

    Be prepared not to get an immediate answer to a complicated UC question - it might entail a follow up phone call from your CAB when they have made enquiries themselves.

    I would keep notes of your telephone calls with the UC advisers (time / person spoken to / etc) so you have evidence of what you have been told.

    You could always ask your MP!
    At the very least they should know about the lack of knowledge / training of DWP staff.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 9:23 PM
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    huckster
    Not incorrect. Have you tried entering 3 children onto a UC full service claim through Gov.uk ? It blocks claimants from doing this. Therefore the OP won't be able to add their claim with 3 children.

    And the partner with a UC claim would have to register the change of people who live with them through report a change and I don't that would work with 3 children included either. Therefore they might not get a linking code generated for the partner to apply to their new claim.

    There might be some exception, but I am looking at it from a practical point of view.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 5th Jul 18, 9:27 PM
    • 2,408 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    ...... having looked at the legislation again this seems to be one of those cases. You have to claim UC if you have 3 or more children and 1 of the claimants has had a UC claim in the last 6 months.
    IQ
    Originally posted by Icequeen99
    IQ,
    Is it possible you could provide the OP with the legislation reference and a link to it.

    I ask, because the OP is very likely to get the run around from the DWP when making the UC change of circumstances.
    Having the legislation to quote at the DWP is always helpful.

    Thanks.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • teabag29
    • By teabag29 5th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
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    teabag29
    The above post from ice queen is correct, you CAN claim uc with 3 children if 1 of you has claimed uc within 6 months, my case is one of those exceptions.

    Anyway I eventually spoke to someone from Dwp and a UC expert who said its not definite (as Dwp are still making changes here and there) but its highly likely that I;ll be told to make a uc joint claim with my partner and will nolonger be entitled to tax credits and income support if we claim after July 18th.
    I will then be 104 worse off a week and not protected by the transitional protection, this will really effect me Im struggling as it is. Therefore the only choice we have is to change plans and for him to move in before this date to keep our tax credits but this will i will have no money to go on holiday with at the end of the month which will be our first holiday in I dont know how long and much needed, took us almost a year to save to get it paid (only in uk) but now I!!!8217;lll have next to nothing to spend as tax credits claim will end and take a long time to process the new claim and income support will also take a few weeks to sort and be lower as I will lose my severe disability premium so what is left will probably not even cover the bills let alone any holiday spends. Gutted

    * just to conform my partner will be moving into my property from his parents house
    Last edited by teabag29; 05-07-2018 at 9:36 PM.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 9:33 PM
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    huckster
    Gov.uk information

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/universal-credit-and-families-with-more-than-2-children-information-for-claimants
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 9:40 PM
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    huckster
    The above post is correct, you CAN claim uc with 3 children if 1 of you has claimed uc within 6 months, my case is one of those exceptions.

    Anyway I eventually spoke to someone from Dwp and a UC expert who said it!!!8217;s not definite (as Dwp are still making changes here and there) but it!!!8217;s highly likely that I!!!8217;ll be told to make a uc joint claim with my partner and will nolonger be entitled to tax credits and income support if we claim after July 18th.
    I will then be 104 worse off a week and not protected by the transitional protection, this will really effect me I!!!8217;m struggling as it is. Therefore the only choice we have is to change plans and for him to move in before this date to keep our tax credits but this will i will have no money to go on holiday with at the end of the month which will be our first holiday in I don!!!8217;t know how long and much needed, took us almost a year to save to get it paid (only in uk) but now I!!!8217;ll have next to nothing to spend as tax credits claim will end and take a long time to process the new claim and income support will also take a few weeks to sort and be lower as I!!!8217;ll lose my severe disability premium so what!!!8217;s left will probably not even cover the bills let alone any holiday spends. Gutted
    Originally posted by teabag29
    Suggest you have this checked before you end up worse off.

    Get CAB to check.

    If this is correct, it will be a tad complicated, because there will need to be workarounds used and it might end up a bit of a mess.

    Housing costs ?
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 10:09 PM
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    huckster
    See page 15 of this document. Family formation.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/662471/stakeholder-guide-universal-credit-2-child-policy.pdf

    Perhaps ask whether the family formation exception would apply to your situation and if so, what needs to be done, so you obtain the correct entitlement.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 5th Jul 18, 10:26 PM
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    Icequeen99
    See page 15 of this document. Family formation.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/662471/stakeholder-guide-universal-credit-2-child-policy.pdf

    Perhaps ask whether the family formation exception would apply to your situation and if so, what needs to be done, so you obtain the correct entitlement.
    Originally posted by huckster
    It is complicated, but no-workarounds needed as it is just part of the process. When a tax credit claim is made from someone with 3 children in a full service area one of the checks that HMRC do is to see if either claimant has received UC in the last 6 months.

    The link you provide is about family formation in relation to ordering of children for the 2 child limit which is nothing to do with what the OP is asking about really.

    I do agree on one point - the OP needs an experienced welfare rights adviser to guide her through this and ensure she understands the correct position and secondly helps her check the UC calculation.

    IQ
    • teabag29
    • By teabag29 5th Jul 18, 10:49 PM
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    teabag29
    I!!!8217;ve spoken to Dwp and expert UC advisor who have said if nothing changes between now and then (as tweets are still being made by Dwp) then I will have to claim UC as a couple IF I claim on or after July 18th when my area is is full service. I have done a calculation on turn to us of what my new award would be on UC and then compared that to what it would be on tax credits and income support and it!!!8217;s showing That we!!!8217;ll be 104 worse off on universal credits so my only option really is to change our plans and have my partner move in before July 18th so that we won!!!8217;t be 100 worse off every week..... just means my long awaited and much needed holiday won!!!8217;t be very good now as I!!!8217;ll have next to nothing to spend on it, but rather that then spend every week after it struggling.
    • teabag29
    • By teabag29 5th Jul 18, 10:50 PM
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    teabag29
    I don!!!8217;t know why my posts are coming up with letters and exclamation marks, I!!!8217;m spelling everything correctly but it!!!8217;s coming out all wrong when I post
    • huckster
    • By huckster 5th Jul 18, 10:52 PM
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    huckster
    Workarounds would be needed, as the OP's partner would need to report a change to UC people living with you, new relationship etc, noting just 2 children. At the moment, UC full service will stop new claimant info including 3 children. Noting 2 children would allow a linking code to be provider for partner (OP) making a new UC claim.

    When the OP makes their new UC claim with the linking code to join their partners UC claim, they will have to enter the same 2 children. If they attempt to enter 3 children, they won't be able to proceed. Once the joint claim is up and running, child number 3 can be added, but the question is then whether they receive any extra amount for the 3rd child. They might have to ask that this is referred to a decision maker to see if an exception applies.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 5th Jul 18, 10:53 PM
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    Ames
    It's a forum glitch - if you're using predictive text on an apple device it gives the weird numbers and !s. Turning off predictive text should solve it.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
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