Advice please universal credit query

teabag29 · 5 July 2018 at 12:07AM

My partner and I will be moving in together in September. Currently I am on income support with 3 children and on pip. My area is not a uc area yet but will be on July 18th.
My partner is currently claiming uc (in the wrag group) and pip, he!!!8217;s been on uc for 6 months next week.

Once we move in together and I add him to my income support claim and make a new tax credits claim will I change over to uc as it will be rolled out in my area by then and partner has been on it OR will I stay on tax credits and income support because I have 3 children and never been on uc myself and so it wouldn!!!8217;t apply to me?

If I move to uc it looks like I!!!8217;ll be losing £200 a week, this is huge.

huckster · 5 July 2018 at 6:21AM

Currently UC does not apply if you gave 3 or more children, so not sure you will have a joint UC claim with your partner.

To be honest, not sure exactly how DWP would require benefits to be changed.

What I would suggest that you do is to contact Citizens Advice with all of the information and see if they can find out from DWP how they want you to proceed with benefit changes. Citizens Advice do have good contacts within DWP, so should be able to obtain an answer for you in writing. This should then make it easier.

If you don't do this, I think you will have problems.

Icequeen99 · 5 July 2018 at 7:12AM

I think you will have to join your partner's UC award which would end your existing benefit claims. The rules currently say that those with 3 or more children have to claim tax credits (and other benefits like income support) unless certain conditions exist and my understanding is that as your partner has had a UC claim in the last 6 months that is one of the exceptions.

I would get some advice on this from a local agency.

IQ

pmlindyloo · 5 July 2018 at 10:30AM

An interesting question.

I am wondering if your partner would be able to end his Universal Credit claim because of a change of circumstances (ie moving in with you) and be added to your legacy benefits.

My reasoning is that when he moves in with you, you would not then meet the criteria for Universal Credit as you would be a family with 3 children.

There are special circumstances where a Universal Credit claim can be ended and I am wondering whether this is one of them.

Since this is particularly complicated I would like to suggest that your partner either writes the circumstances in his journal and asks the question or telephones the Universal Credit helpline. If he telephones he may have to ask for a call back from a decision maker. Be sure to get the answer in writing.

QUOTE

If you already have an online account and journal you should call the Universal Credit full service helpline on:
Telephone: 0800 328 5644
Textphone: 0800 328 1344
8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday (closed on bank and public holidays). Calls are free.

Whatever the reply is I would ask also that they quote the legislation which affects such a change of circumstances particularly since this will mean a considerable loss of income to the household.

Please let us know how you get on.

Icequeen99 · 5 July 2018 at 11:40AM

pmlindyloo wrote: »

An interesting question.

I am wondering if your partner would be able to end his Universal Credit claim because of a change of circumstances (ie moving in with you) and be added to your legacy benefits.

My reasoning is that when he moves in with you, you would not then meet the criteria for Universal Credit as you would be a family with 3 children.

There are special circumstances where a Universal Credit claim can be ended and I am wondering whether this is one of them.

Since this is particularly complicated I would like to suggest that your partner either writes the circumstances in his journal and asks the question or telephones the Universal Credit helpline. If he telephones he may have to ask for a call back from a decision maker. Be sure to get the answer in writing.

QUOTE

If you already have an online account and journal you should call the Universal Credit full service helpline on:
Telephone: 0800 328 5644
Textphone: 0800 328 1344
8am - 6pm, Monday to Friday (closed on bank and public holidays). Calls are free.

Whatever the reply is I would ask also that they quote the legislation which affects such a change of circumstances particularly since this will mean a considerable loss of income to the household.

Please let us know how you get on.

Worth a try, but i'm pretty sure that the legislation says his claim becomes joint and the 3 child legislation allows that because it has an exception if one partner has had UC in the last 6 months.

IQ

teabag29 · 5 July 2018 at 11:49AM

So far Ive spoken to 3 different UC and benefit advisors and nobody seems to know the answer, 1 says Id have to join his uc claim, 1 says Id still be entitled to the tax credits/income support option (but instead of getting my disability premium he!!!8217;d become my career and get carers allowance) and the third one said she thinks Id claim esa but really doesnt know, try ringing cab. If UC advisors dont know then how will anyone else know

huckster · 5 July 2018 at 8:53PM

Which is why I said contact CAB, as otherwise you will get the run around. CAB will ask DWP for you and get a definitive response.

I agree with pmlindyhoo, that your partner is more likely to have to stop their UC claim and move to legacy benefits. I am not sure a joint UC claim would work, as UC does not allow new claims with 3 children or more, so you would be blocked from applying. The only way around it would be to enter just 2 children when you set up a UC claim and then register the 3rd child afterwards. But then you would be restricted to children element for 2 children, so may be worse off than tax credits.

What is the housing situation ? Does your partner have housing rent covered by UC ? Will you be renting a house with more bedrooms and expect benefits to increase to cover extra cost ?

Often with benefit decisions, housing can be an important factor in deciding way forward. DWP are not going to want a split claim for housing, with one person getting help from UC and the other getting council housing benefit.

Icequeen99 · 5 July 2018 at 9:12PM

huckster wrote: »

Which is why I said contact CAB, as otherwise you will get the run around. CAB will ask DWP for you and get a definitive response.

I agree with pmlindyhoo, that your partner is more likely to have to stop their UC claim and move to legacy benefits. I am not sure a joint UC claim would work, as UC does not allow new claims with 3 children or more, so you would be blocked from applying. The only way around it would be to enter just 2 children when you set up a UC claim and then register the 3rd child afterwards. But then you would be restricted to children element for 2 children, so may be worse off than tax credits.

What is the housing situation ? Does your partner have housing rent covered by UC ? Will you be renting a house with more bedrooms and expect benefits to increase to cover extra cost ?

Often with benefit decisions, housing can be an important factor in deciding way forward. DWP are not going to want a split claim for housing, with one person getting help from UC and the other getting council housing benefit.

I'm sorry, but you are giving incorrect information here. People with 3 or more children must claim UC in certain circumstances - there is no complete block on claiming with 3 or more children in full service areas and having looked at the legislation again this seems to be one of those cases. You have to claim UC if you have 3 or more children and 1 of the claimants has had a UC claim in the last 6 months.

However it is complex, so the OP should get some advice but I don't think it is helpful to make statements without any caveats.

IQ

Alice_Holt · 5 July 2018 at 9:20PM

Teabag29,

When you see CAB, I'm not sure if this query would be covered on their information system.
If the DWP can't tell you.........

So, ask the CAB adviser if they can contact their central Expert Advice Team by email. This will not give you a instant reply, but should give you a definitive answer with the legislation details to quote at DWP staff.
The other source of advice may be CPAG - they have an advice line professionals can use. So it may be possible your CAB adviser could ring CPAG.

Be prepared not to get an immediate answer to a complicated UC question - it might entail a follow up phone call from your CAB when they have made enquiries themselves.

I would keep notes of your telephone calls with the UC advisers (time / person spoken to / etc) so you have evidence of what you have been told.

You could always ask your MP!
At the very least they should know about the lack of knowledge / training of DWP staff.

huckster · 5 July 2018 at 9:23PM

Not incorrect. Have you tried entering 3 children onto a UC full service claim through Gov.uk ? It blocks claimants from doing this. Therefore the OP won't be able to add their claim with 3 children.

And the partner with a UC claim would have to register the change of people who live with them through report a change and I don't that would work with 3 children included either. Therefore they might not get a linking code generated for the partner to apply to their new claim.

There might be some exception, but I am looking at it from a practical point of view.

Alice_Holt · 5 July 2018 at 9:27PM

Icequeen99 wrote: »

...... having looked at the legislation again this seems to be one of those cases. You have to claim UC if you have 3 or more children and 1 of the claimants has had a UC claim in the last 6 months.
IQ

IQ,
Is it possible you could provide the OP with the legislation reference and a link to it.

I ask, because the OP is very likely to get the run around from the DWP when making the UC change of circumstances.
Having the legislation to quote at the DWP is always helpful.

Thanks.

Advice please universal credit query

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