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  • FIRST POST
    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 2nd Jul 18, 2:22 PM
    • 245Posts
    • 34Thanks
    badaz52
    Car finance issue
    • #1
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:22 PM
    Car finance issue 2nd Jul 18 at 2:22 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I'll try and explain this as best I can but in September 2013 I purchased a Peugeot 208 on a PCP agreement, I put 2200 deposit down. In September 2015 after Peugeot mithering me I decided to trade in and trade up to a 308. As it was a more expensive car and there was a little negative equity in the 208 due to the early trade in we settled on me throwing another 500 in up front to change. This kept my monthly payments around the same.

    The paperwork was all done and dusted and I was happy until now.

    My current car the 308 was on a 4 year agreement so is due to end in September 2019, I had been looking into changing it for something else and of course am happy to pay any negative equity there may be but I have been told that the agreement I have is a Lease not PCP so I can't trade it in early and if I wanted to buy the car at the end I can't do that either. The issue I have with this is the paperwork is very similar between my old PCP and the new lease, no one explained to me when I traded in that my agreement was changing completely too, the finance manager in the dealership never spoke to me for example. For example the PCP says "final balloon payment" vs "final rental payment" on the lease one there are no other notable differences in the rest of the paperwork.

    With new car deals we know that there is always an initial outlay but frequently trading in for newer ones makes this more manageable as the dealers are always keen to reduce this as much as possible by offering contributions and to clear some of the negative equity but now that my agreement has completely changed without my knowledge I am resigned to the fact that in September 2019 I am back to square one with no car ownership and no equity to put towards another one.

    I know this seems like I am looking for a way out of a lease but I genuinely am not I'm just worried about my options at the end and feel like the finance deal was mis-sold, there are also other issues such as the car warranty ends September 2018 but the lease doesn't end till September 2019, how can I have a lease where I don't own the car and it not be covered under warranty for the last year??

    Should I complain to the dealership in question? In the past I have had managers come and explain finance deals to me but this time that didn't happen and as I had never traded in on a PCP before I just thought things would remain the same but they didn't. I feel badly let down.
Page 1
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 2nd Jul 18, 2:34 PM
    • 3,808 Posts
    • 2,839 Thanks
    Tarambor
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:34 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:34 PM
    I know this seems like I am looking for a way out of a lease but I genuinely am not I'm just worried about my options at the end and feel like the finance deal was mis-sold,
    Originally posted by badaz52
    At which point they'll no doubt produce the paperwork with your signature on with the words "Lease".

    there are also other issues such as the car warranty ends September 2018 but the lease doesn't end till September 2019, how can I have a lease where I don't own the car and it not be covered under warranty for the last year??
    Because the manufacturer only offers a 3 year warranty. You don't need to have a manufacturers warranty on a lease. Without the warranty any problems then become the lease company or yours to repair depending on the terms of the lease.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 2nd Jul 18, 2:35 PM
    • 3,041 Posts
    • 1,711 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:35 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:35 PM
    Not sure about the warranty, if it was a secondhand car in maybe in the terms of the lease that you take out the extended warranty - better check that.

    The only advice I can get is do the sums first and read and understand the next finance agreement you will sign.

    You can try and complain - but if you have the Key Facts document and agreements all signed, not sure its a case for mis-selling, maybe mis-buying.
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 2nd Jul 18, 2:52 PM
    • 373 Posts
    • 136 Thanks
    Penelopa.Pitstop
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:52 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:52 PM
    Didn't you notice that there's no big payment at the end of contract? I'm sure paperwork explain how it works (I had couple of PCH), you just have to read it before signing, not 3 years later.

    Unfortunately you will have to pay for any repairs after warranty expires. That's why PCH is not recommend beyond warranty period.

    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 2nd Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    badaz52
    • #5
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    I have signed the contract yes but surely that does not exempt the mis-selling argument just makes it more difficult. My issue is that as I was on a PCP and became on a lease someone should have explained that as the terms are different and quite significantly too and got me to sign something separately to show that I understood. Instead what I got was a finance agreement that 99% of buyers would think was the same. The layout of both is identical in black print but the wording is different in just two areas, at the top it says "Personal Contract Purchase" or "Personal Finance Lease" and "Final Balloon payment" and "Final Rental payment" in my opinion using the words Personal at the start of the headings on both and changing the middle word between balloon/finance is not enough to make it obvious that that the agreement is different unless the member of staff made it clear to me which they didn't.
    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 2nd Jul 18, 2:56 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    badaz52
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:56 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 18, 2:56 PM
    Didn't you notice that there's no big payment at the end of contract? I'm sure paperwork explain how it works (I had couple of PCH), you just have to read it before signing, not 3 years later.

    Unfortunately you will have to pay for any repairs after warranty expires. That's why PCH is not recommend beyond warranty period.
    Originally posted by Penelopa.Pitstop
    Of course but as I said on the PCP one it says "Final balloon payment" and on my currentl lease one it says "final rental payment" obviously I missed this word because it sits inbetween two others which are the same on both agreements which I think is misleading.

    Also there is a big payment at the end which is why I didn't notice that it was a rental not balloon. Why would I ever think my agreement would be different unless someone drew my attention to it?
    Last edited by badaz52; 02-07-2018 at 3:10 PM.
    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 2nd Jul 18, 3:29 PM
    • 245 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    badaz52
    • #7
    • 2nd Jul 18, 3:29 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Jul 18, 3:29 PM
    You are a stupid fool and you will get nowhere challenging this. One agreement was headed PCP, the other agreement was heard Personal Lease. Do you not read the documents you sign?

    Looks like you!!!8217;re stuck with the LEASE to this car until the end of term and walk away with zilch.
    Originally posted by debtdebt
    Yes I did read them but they are MISLEADING, clearly you are a fool as you haven't understood what I am asking, If I showed you a copy of both types of contract you would see my point. If it wasn't for looking at trading in again I wouldn't have even known they were different!

    These forums are toxic, you ask for advice and it shouldn't matter how stupid you might find the question if you don't want to help then kindly do one as you offer nothing helpful.
    Last edited by badaz52; 02-07-2018 at 3:32 PM.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 2nd Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    • 3,041 Posts
    • 1,711 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #8
    • 2nd Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Jul 18, 4:24 PM
    I dont think we should be calling other posters names - you can think what you like but hurling abuse on these forums will probably see you getting a slapped wrist. Best edit the posts before the admin do.

    Call people names down the pub over a beer if you must - although the end result would probably be the same - you have little chance to challenge your similar looking agreement this far down the line.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 2nd Jul 18, 4:51 PM
    • 2,086 Posts
    • 1,409 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    • #9
    • 2nd Jul 18, 4:51 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Jul 18, 4:51 PM
    Any person can be foolish, but it doesn't make them a fool. Yes, OP was foolish to not read the document carefully before signing.

    OP - what is the final rental payment? Normally there is advance rental payments up front - normally 3,6,9 or 12 months worth of payments up front followed by say 47 payments on a 4 year lease. I haven't seen a larger payment at the end of a lease (apart from payiment for excerss miles).
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 2nd Jul 18, 6:56 PM
    • 17,868 Posts
    • 10,898 Thanks
    motorguy
    You are a stupid fool and you will get nowhere challenging this. One agreement was headed PCP, the other agreement was heard Personal Lease. Do you not read the documents you sign?

    Looks like you!!!8217;re stuck with the LEASE to this car until the end of term and walk away with zilch.
    Originally posted by debtdebt
    Absolutely no need for name calling on here.

    Bang out of order.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 2nd Jul 18, 7:00 PM
    • 17,868 Posts
    • 10,898 Thanks
    motorguy
    Hi everyone,

    I'll try and explain this as best I can but in September 2013 I purchased a Peugeot 208 on a PCP agreement, I put 2200 deposit down. In September 2015 after Peugeot mithering me I decided to trade in and trade up to a 308. As it was a more expensive car and there was a little negative equity in the 208 due to the early trade in we settled on me throwing another 500 in up front to change. This kept my monthly payments around the same.

    The paperwork was all done and dusted and I was happy until now.

    My current car the 308 was on a 4 year agreement so is due to end in September 2019, I had been looking into changing it for something else and of course am happy to pay any negative equity there may be but I have been told that the agreement I have is a Lease not PCP so I can't trade it in early and if I wanted to buy the car at the end I can't do that either. The issue I have with this is the paperwork is very similar between my old PCP and the new lease, no one explained to me when I traded in that my agreement was changing completely too, the finance manager in the dealership never spoke to me for example. For example the PCP says "final balloon payment" vs "final rental payment" on the lease one there are no other notable differences in the rest of the paperwork.

    With new car deals we know that there is always an initial outlay but frequently trading in for newer ones makes this more manageable as the dealers are always keen to reduce this as much as possible by offering contributions and to clear some of the negative equity but now that my agreement has completely changed without my knowledge I am resigned to the fact that in September 2019 I am back to square one with no car ownership and no equity to put towards another one.

    I know this seems like I am looking for a way out of a lease but I genuinely am not I'm just worried about my options at the end and feel like the finance deal was mis-sold, there are also other issues such as the car warranty ends September 2018 but the lease doesn't end till September 2019, how can I have a lease where I don't own the car and it not be covered under warranty for the last year??

    Should I complain to the dealership in question? In the past I have had managers come and explain finance deals to me but this time that didn't happen and as I had never traded in on a PCP before I just thought things would remain the same but they didn't. I feel badly let down.
    Originally posted by badaz52
    If its a lease, you just hand the car back.

    Thats no different to PCP in that sense. Chances are there wouldnt be any positive equity in the PCP deal anyway.

    If you''re worried about year 4, get an extended manufacturers warranty from the dealer / manufacturer.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 5th Jul 18, 11:03 AM
    • 245 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    badaz52
    Any person can be foolish, but it doesn't make them a fool. Yes, OP was foolish to not read the document carefully before signing.

    OP - what is the final rental payment? Normally there is advance rental payments up front - normally 3,6,9 or 12 months worth of payments up front followed by say 47 payments on a 4 year lease. I haven't seen a larger payment at the end of a lease (apart from payiment for excerss miles).
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    The final rental payment is around 6500, which I thought was a final balloon payment because the amount was very similar to what was on my PCP agreement on the other car. In terms of advance rentals I'm not sure how they worked it out, I gave them my old car and 500 which would only amount to about 2 months payments but to my knowledge the 500 was to clear the negative equity on the car I was trading in not any advance rental. On that basis I don't think I paid any advance rental up front it was just a 48 month lease.

    I have spoken to Peugeot about my options and they would only expect me to clear negative equity in order to trade in. If there is no negative equity then they just want a deposit and away I go. I know I've been foolish but do feel let down by the dealership as they never gave me all the finance package options at the time, they selected the lease one for me as it was in all likeliness a little cheaper than the PCP plus I asked for 4 year (which may not be possible on PCP?) as I was on PCP I had no reason to believe the new finance package was any different and the paperwork has minimal differences between PCP/Lease so I think anyone would have missed it.
    Last edited by badaz52; 05-07-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 5th Jul 18, 11:34 AM
    • 924 Posts
    • 584 Thanks
    wgl2014
    If you have a lease then there is no negative or positive equity, you pay the contracted amount to hire the car and at the end you give it back.
    I think you need to go over your paperwork very carefully to see exactly where you can find yourself at the end of the lease, as I understand it you will be paying 6.5k to hand the car back and end up with nothing.

    Edit: A quick Google suggests I am wrong!

    https://www.psa-finance.co.uk/personal-finance-lease

    I don't really get how this is different to PCP, there's no option to buy at the end but you can sell to whoever you like and pay off the final payment. Presumably if you want the car you could sell it to yourself!
    Last edited by wgl2014; 05-07-2018 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Update
    • badaz52
    • By badaz52 5th Jul 18, 11:47 AM
    • 245 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    badaz52
    I hadn't thought of it like that. I could sell it to my Dad lol.
    • Arklight
    • By Arklight 5th Jul 18, 12:07 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 2,467 Thanks
    Arklight
    I'm unclear what the final rental payment of 6500 is. Why would you pay that? What happens if you don't?

    Without seeing the contract we can't say if it looks like you were mis-sold. If you can blank the personal details out then you could add an image of the document to your post.

    A legal contract is only enforceable under the jurisdiction of a court of law. If yours is ambiguous, contains unreasonable terms, or contravenes statute, then it may not be valid.

    People seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what you've signed without seeing it.
    • facade
    • By facade 5th Jul 18, 5:37 PM
    • 3,542 Posts
    • 1,860 Thanks
    facade
    Edit: A quick Google suggests I am wrong!

    https://www.psa-finance.co.uk/personal-finance-lease

    I don't really get how this is different to PCP, there's no option to buy at the end but you can sell to whoever you like and pay off the final payment. Presumably if you want the car you could sell it to yourself!
    Originally posted by wgl2014

    It reads to me that you don't pay the balloon if you hand it back.


    If you want to keep it then you pay the balloon and a "peppercorn" rental for evermore, or you can sell the thing and only pay the balloon, which is the weird part, as it would be cheaper.....
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
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