Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Star81
    • By Star81 14th May 18, 9:16 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Star81
    Wills and my items
    • #1
    • 14th May 18, 9:16 PM
    Wills and my items 14th May 18 at 9:16 PM
    Hello. I recently posted about what would happen to my debts should I die and received many useful answers. I am curious to understand if it would make any difference if I made a will. I have a car and a few personal items which I understand may be taken to pay towards my debts. If I made a will stating which items I wanted to go to specific family and friends does this mean they would definitely go to those people or can they still be used to pay off the money I owe? I am new to all this and have never looked I to making a will, I don't own much but what I do own I would like to go to the people I care about. Thank you
Page 1
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 14th May 18, 9:23 PM
    • 5,160 Posts
    • 6,412 Thanks
    theoretica
    • #2
    • 14th May 18, 9:23 PM
    • #2
    • 14th May 18, 9:23 PM
    Any valuable items would be sold to go towards debts.

    Otherwise people would try to take out loans to buy expensive jewellery to leave to their family and friends and loan companies would refuse to lend to anyone old or ill.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • Star81
    • By Star81 14th May 18, 9:45 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Star81
    • #3
    • 14th May 18, 9:45 PM
    • #3
    • 14th May 18, 9:45 PM
    Thank you for your reply. So it wouldn't make any difference if I made a will as whatever I had of any worth will be removed anyway and sold to pay towards my debts? is this what probate is? Sorry for the questions, I am lost with all this legal stuff
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th May 18, 10:41 PM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 10,442 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 10:41 PM
    • #4
    • 14th May 18, 10:41 PM
    Yes that's pretty much it probate involves appointing someone to agree what is owed to pass it on.
    First funeral expenses.
    Then mortgage
    Then debts
    Only then do people get what's left.

    And probably tax is ranked in there high up as well if owed.

    What I don't know what happens is, say you leave diamond A to person A, diamond B to person B, and Diamond C to person C and there is no other money and say any one diamond will cover the outstanding debts. What gets sold? It cannot be that say diamond A is sold and person A loses out and B & C are OK.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th May 18, 11:50 PM
    • 956 Posts
    • 631 Thanks
    Brynsam
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 11:50 PM
    • #5
    • 14th May 18, 11:50 PM
    Have a read: https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th May 18, 7:21 AM
    • 4,148 Posts
    • 3,392 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 7:21 AM
    • #6
    • 15th May 18, 7:21 AM
    Also read the !!!8220;stickies!!!8221; at th start of this forum.
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 15th May 18, 7:45 AM
    • 685 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    nom de plume
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 7:45 AM
    • #7
    • 15th May 18, 7:45 AM
    I am curious to understand if it would make any difference if I made a will. I have a car and a few personal items which I understand may be taken to pay towards my debts. If I made a will stating which items I wanted to go to specific family and friends does this mean they would definitely go to those people or can they still be used to pay off the money I owe?
    Originally posted by Star81
    Much will depend on both the wording of the will and the financial state of your affairs.

    If we assume you want to leave "such car as I may own to my son Jack" and "my bone china tea set to my daughter Jill", the executor should endeavour to carry out these wishes and use other items of your estate not specifically bequeathed to settle any debts. If there is a shortfall in meeting the debts then the "car and bone china tea set" would need selling to cover it.

    When it comes to administering an estate, there is a specific pecking order for distribution with funeral costs and then debts at the top of the list. Specific legacies come next (car, tea set) and then pecuniary legacies (eg specific sums of cash) and finally the residual.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th May 18, 8:29 AM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 10,442 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 8:29 AM
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 8:29 AM
    15th May 18, 7:21 AM
    !!!8220;
    Have a read: https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    !!!8221;Also read the stickies ; at th start of this forum.

    Thanks, but Neither of those answer the sort of question I asked, as far as I can see, eg how the executor would decide. Probably because if it cant be sorted amicably among the beneficiaries next stop is court.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th May 18, 9:10 AM
    • 4,113 Posts
    • 6,452 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 9:10 AM
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 9:10 AM
    What I don't know what happens is, say you leave diamond A to person A, diamond B to person B, and Diamond C to person C and there is no other money and say any one diamond will cover the outstanding debts. What gets sold? It cannot be that say diamond A is sold and person A loses out and B & C are OK.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe

    Wotireckon is that all three diamonds would be sold, the debts paid and whatever cash was left would be divided amongst the beneficiaries in proportion to each diamond's value. There is nothing to stop them immediately buying the diamonds back using their cash legacies plus their own money.

    Alternatively, the beneficiaries pay off the estate's debts between them and inherit the diamonds. Same result but slightly simpler.



    *edit* Owain sounds confident in his answer and mine was (as I indicated) a total guess, so ignore the above.
    Last edited by Malthusian; 15-05-2018 at 2:25 PM.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 15th May 18, 9:27 AM
    • 8,074 Posts
    • 8,925 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    What I don't know what happens is, say you leave diamond A to person A, diamond B to person B, and Diamond C to person C and there is no other money and say any one diamond will cover the outstanding debts. What gets sold? It cannot be that say diamond A is sold and person A loses out and B & C are OK.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I think the bequests mentioned first in the will take priority, so in the above event C's diamond gets sold.

    A and B get their diamonds, C does not get a diamond, and any remaining cash left after the debts are paid goes to the residuary legatee.

    However if C really wants his diamond the estate can sell him the diamond and use the cash to pay the debts.

    If between making your will and dying, you have sold diamond A and bought two emeralds instead, A gets nothing, B gets his diamond, C gets nothing, and the emeralds and cash go to the residuary legatee. This illustrates a problem with naming specific items in the Will - they may not exist by the time you die. In many cases the residuary legatee can end up with a large part of the estate.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 15th May 18, 9:34 AM
    • 8,074 Posts
    • 8,925 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    Wotireckon is that all three diamonds would be sold, the debts paid and whatever cash was left would be divided amongst the beneficiaries in proportion to each diamond's value.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Crucially, no. Once the diamond is sold it's out of the estate, and so cannot be inherited. And the will specified that particular diamond, not an equivalent amount, and a specific legacy to each beneficiary, not a pro-rata sharing of what's left.

    All cash left would pass to the residuary legatee, not A B or C.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 15th May 18, 10:38 AM
    • 956 Posts
    • 631 Thanks
    Brynsam
    Yes that's pretty much it probate involves appointing someone to agree what is owed to pass it on.
    First funeral expenses.
    Then mortgage
    Then debts
    Only then do people get what's left.

    And probably tax is ranked in there high up as well if owed.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Secured debts (such as a mortgage) take priority over funeral expenses (strange but true - it's a common misunderstanding).
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 15th May 18, 11:05 AM
    • 4,996 Posts
    • 5,559 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    Secured debts (such as a mortgage) take priority over funeral expenses (strange but true - it's a common misunderstanding).
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    Secured dept is not usually a problem, as there is always something, usually a house, that it is secured against.

    If for some reason the secured property value has fallen below the level of dept, then the shortfall will be classed as unsecured dept, so will join all the other creditors behind the funeral costs. If the property is the only asset, and is worth equal or below the level of dept then everything will go to that one creditor.

    HMRC are also classed as unsecured creditors, so donít get priority over anyone else.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th May 18, 11:23 AM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 10,442 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thanks to all. Just goes to show how careful you need to be about your directions in the will and in particular not trying to micromanage.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th May 18, 11:30 AM
    • 4,148 Posts
    • 3,392 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    Thanks to all. Just goes to show how careful you need to be about your directions in the will and in particular not trying to micromanage.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Even more import is to never DIY a will or use a will writer. Spend the money with a solicitor and remember that all wills should be reviewed at least every five years. Also remember that if you marry the will become invalid.
    • Star81
    • By Star81 15th May 18, 2:08 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Star81
    Thank you for all your help. I am trying desperately to get my debts down but I currently owe around £15,000. This doesn't even include the student loan of £18,000 and I'm not sure what happen so on that regarding paying it back upon death. I have no savings and own no property nor have a mortgage. My car is only worth around £300 and apart from that I only own a tv that's worth around £100 and an iPod worth about £30. I really would like these 3 items to go to specific people and kind of hope the people who manage probate would decide it's not worth trying to sell them to pay towards my debts as frankly it wouldn't be worth it. Not sure whether to make a will or not !!!55358;!!!56596;
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th May 18, 2:24 PM
    • 4,113 Posts
    • 6,452 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I think the bequests mentioned first in the will take priority, so in the above event C's diamond gets sold.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver

    I'm happy to be corrected. That strikes me as grotesquely unfair compared to my solution, but I am not a judge and the law is not always fair. And it would be the testator's fault for writing such a silly Will.


    And it is a good illustration of why specific bequests are a bad idea.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 15th May 18, 2:36 PM
    • 4,113 Posts
    • 6,452 Thanks
    Malthusian
    My car is only worth around £300 and apart from that I only own a tv that's worth around £100 and an iPod worth about £30. I really would like these 3 items to go to specific people and kind of hope the people who manage probate would decide it's not worth trying to sell them to pay towards my debts as frankly it wouldn't be worth it.
    Originally posted by Star81
    I hope you won't be offended if I point out that all your bequests are effectively worthless. (The cost of your legatee taking their new car to the garage to check it isn't about to explode would probably be more than its value.)

    If someone came here and posted "My friend recently died and left me a £100 TV, but their estate is insolvent and the estate administrator won't let me into the house, even though the TV is of no value to the creditors, how do I get my friend's TV", everyone would tell them to write it off and forget it.

    It really doesn't matter and you have bigger priorities. You would get more out of the Debt-Free Wannabe forum than this one.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 15th May 18, 3:05 PM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 10,442 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thank you for all your help. I am trying desperately to get my debts down but I currently owe around £15,000. This doesn't even include the student loan of £18,000 and I'm not sure what happen so on that regarding paying it back upon death. I have no savings and own no property nor have a mortgage. My car is only worth around £300 and apart from that I only own a tv that's worth around £100 and an iPod worth about £30. I really would like these 3 items to go to specific people and kind of hope the people who manage probate would decide it's not worth trying to sell them to pay towards my debts as frankly it wouldn't be worth it. Not sure whether to make a will or not !!!55358;!!!56596;
    Originally posted by Star81
    Unless you die ata very early age your student loan will go "pop" and disappear well before then.

    And who woudl wanta very old iPod ? Or an old banger which is just likely to be a liability..

    I strongly suggest you get on with fixing your life now and stop worrying about minutea thats many years off
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 15th May 18, 5:26 PM
    • 8,074 Posts
    • 8,925 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    My car is only worth around £300 and apart from that I only own a tv that's worth around £100 and an iPod worth about £30. I really would like these 3 items to go to specific people
    Originally posted by Star81
    Have you checked whether those people want those items? The car especially will need to be taxed, insured, MOT'd -- or stored off-road.

    If you want to you can just write nice things to people in your will if you don't want them to feel forgotten.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

553Posts Today

5,631Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin