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  • FIRST POST
    • Youngsy1980
    • By Youngsy1980 13th May 18, 10:39 AM
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    Youngsy1980
    Viagogo - Can I Stop Them Charging Me For Cancelling a Sale?
    • #1
    • 13th May 18, 10:39 AM
    Viagogo - Can I Stop Them Charging Me For Cancelling a Sale? 13th May 18 at 10:39 AM
    Hi, grateful for any advice here.


    I mistakenly purchased 4 tickets to see Orbital in December 2018, found out they weren't the band I thought I had bought when I received them in the post. Contacted Eventim who told me they couldn't refund me and that I should try and sell them privately. Put them on viagogo (was first ticket seller on google, had never sold tickets before, though had looked for tickets previously on there) for what I paid for them but Eventim then refunded me back the money and told me the tickets were cancelled. Using the link that viagogo sent me I tried to cancel the tickets but could see no listing on my account, the whole process just takes you round in circles, you cannot contact them if you have no listing but if the problem is there is no listing then you cannot use their online forms. Found their email address and told them to cancel the order, received a reply telling me I had no listings, went back and forth, my final mail to them was that I should have no listing and anything in my name should be cancelled. Received an email yesterday telling me 2 tickets had sold, managed to find a phone number, eventually found out that I have 2 accounts, one set up as gmail, the other as googlemail. They are now telling me I am going to be charged the full amount of the tickets that I told them to cancel in April because I was logging in using my googlemail address rather than my gmail one. Given that I was using a link provided on their email showing my listing and that I had told them in writing that the order should be cancelled, do I have any recourse here? The incredibly rude customer service agent refused to accept that gmail & googlemail are interchangeable and that I should have known I had different accounts. I have since logged in and cancelled the listing but their T&C's say I am now liable for whatever costs they incur in replacing the tickets (still available via original vendor).


    Any advice gratefully received. Appreciate it.


    Thanks
    Nick
Page 1
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 13th May 18, 10:54 AM
    • 4,048 Posts
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    Fosterdog
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 10:54 AM
    • #2
    • 13th May 18, 10:54 AM
    You made the mistake by creating a second account, it's not their fault that you didn't know that you made a second account or didn't think to check any of your other email addresses just in case.
    • Youngsy1980
    • By Youngsy1980 13th May 18, 11:21 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    Youngsy1980
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 11:21 AM
    • #3
    • 13th May 18, 11:21 AM
    Glad I checked back in for that pearl of wisdom.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • 2,400 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #4
    • 13th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • #4
    • 13th May 18, 12:04 PM
    Glad I checked back in for that pearl of wisdom.
    Originally posted by Youngsy1980
    Tell you what, to save time, tell us what you want to hear and someone will type it out for you.
    • Youngsy1980
    • By Youngsy1980 13th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    Youngsy1980
    • #5
    • 13th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • #5
    • 13th May 18, 12:21 PM
    Super. Hats off to the pair of you forum heroes.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 13th May 18, 12:25 PM
    • 6,851 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #6
    • 13th May 18, 12:25 PM
    • #6
    • 13th May 18, 12:25 PM
    You are entitled to a full refund of the charge, compensation for the stress and distress caused, and a large amount of shares in Viagogo and tickets of your choice to any band in 2020

    Better?
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th May 18, 1:24 PM
    • 2,400 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #7
    • 13th May 18, 1:24 PM
    • #7
    • 13th May 18, 1:24 PM
    Super. Hats off to the pair of you forum heroes.
    Originally posted by Youngsy1980
    I don't know what more you want? You're situation is clear cut, the mistake was yours and their terms and conditions, which you signed up to - twice - are clear. Googlemail and gmail are not interchangeable if you use them as login usernames. You had your answer in the first reply. There's no point getting stroppy with people just because you're not getting the answer you want.

    If you want legal advice, pay for it.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th May 18, 1:26 PM
    • 2,400 Posts
    • 3,183 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    • #8
    • 13th May 18, 1:26 PM
    • #8
    • 13th May 18, 1:26 PM
    Hi, grateful for any advice here.


    I mistakenly purchased 4 tickets to see Orbital in December 2018, found out they weren't the band I thought I had bought when I received them in the post. Contacted Eventim who told me they couldn't refund me and that I should try and sell them privately. Put them on viagogo (was first ticket seller on google, had never sold tickets before, though had looked for tickets previously on there) for what I paid for them but Eventim then refunded me back the money and told me the tickets were cancelled. Using the link that viagogo sent me I tried to cancel the tickets but could see no listing on my account, the whole process just takes you round in circles, you cannot contact them if you have no listing but if the problem is there is no listing then you cannot use their online forms. Found their email address and told them to cancel the order, received a reply telling me I had no listings, went back and forth, my final mail to them was that I should have no listing and anything in my name should be cancelled. Received an email yesterday telling me 2 tickets had sold, managed to find a phone number, eventually found out that I have 2 accounts, one set up as gmail, the other as googlemail. They are now telling me I am going to be charged the full amount of the tickets that I told them to cancel in April because I was logging in using my googlemail address rather than my gmail one. Given that I was using a link provided on their email showing my listing and that I had told them in writing that the order should be cancelled, do I have any recourse here? The incredibly rude customer service agent refused to accept that gmail & googlemail are interchangeable and that I should have known I had different accounts. I have since logged in and cancelled the listing but their T&C's say I am now liable for whatever costs they incur in replacing the tickets (still available via original vendor).


    Any advice gratefully received. Appreciate it.


    Thanks
    Nick
    Originally posted by Youngsy1980
    ...unless it's not what you want to hear.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th May 18, 1:33 PM
    • 12,984 Posts
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    unholyangel
    • #9
    • 13th May 18, 1:33 PM
    • #9
    • 13th May 18, 1:33 PM
    OP contact viagogo and tell them that you communicated to them that you were withdrawing before the offer was accepted and therefore, no contract could be formed as per the rules on contract formation.

    The issue is that I believe as part of the process, you need to give viagogo a credit or debit card number and that they're governed by swiss law. So you're in a weak position here as they could just help themselves, leaving you to try and claw it back.


    Also, if you didn't commit to send the tickets directly to viagogo, the sale would require you to confirm it before you'd be liable (according to their own terms) so thats another angle to look at.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 13th May 18, 2:42 PM
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    marliepanda
    OP contact viagogo and tell them that you communicated to them that you were withdrawing before the offer was accepted and therefore, no contract could be formed as per the rules on contract formation.

    The issue is that I believe as part of the process, you need to give viagogo a credit or debit card number and that they're governed by swiss law. So you're in a weak position here as they could just help themselves, leaving you to try and claw it back.


    Also, if you didn't commit to send the tickets directly to viagogo, the sale would require you to confirm it before you'd be liable (according to their own terms) so thats another angle to look at.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    But they didn’t withdraw. They sent an email from another email address saying to cancel.

    The seller of the tickets did not communicate to them. Someone with another email address (albeit similar) asked to cancel their listings and viagogo said ‘you don’t have any’ which THAT email didn’t.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 13th May 18, 3:01 PM
    • 61,038 Posts
    • 43,609 Thanks
    soolin
    OP contact viagogo and tell them that you communicated to them that you were withdrawing before the offer was accepted and therefore, no contract could be formed as per the rules on contract formation.

    The issue is that I believe as part of the process, you need to give viagogo a credit or debit card number and that they're governed by swiss law. So you're in a weak position here as they could just help themselves, leaving you to try and claw it back.


    Also, if you didn't commit to send the tickets directly to viagogo, the sale would require you to confirm it before you'd be liable (according to their own terms) so thats another angle to look at.
    Originally posted by unholyangel

    As per marliepanda's post suggests I think you might have misread the OP. The seller's email address wasn't used to cancel the sale- just a similar one which they rightly ignored. Imagine the scenario if anyone using a look a like email could interfere with another users account. Say for instance I listed something as soolin@googlemail.com and someone else could set up an email account soolin@gmail.com and have access to my listings. Not only is that an issue for me, but surely an issue to the company under the data protection laws?
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    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 13th May 18, 3:52 PM
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    shaun from Africa
    The incredibly rude customer service agent refused to accept that gmail & googlemail are interchangeable
    Originally posted by Youngsy1980
    Whilst they are certainly interchangeable in that an e-mail sent to one address can be accessed from the other, as far as computer systems run by other businesses are concerned, they are two entirely separate e-mail accounts.

    Even though you were using a link provided by Viagogo to cancel the sale, by putting different e-mail details to those used when originally listing the tickets for sale, you made it impossible for their computer system to connect you to the account.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th May 18, 3:52 PM
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    unholyangel
    But they didn’t withdraw. They sent an email from another email address saying to cancel.

    The seller of the tickets did not communicate to them. Someone with another email address (albeit similar) asked to cancel their listings and viagogo said ‘you don’t have any’ which THAT email didn’t.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    OP didn't say what email he contacted them with. He may have used the other one (the one his account wasn't listed on) or he may have used a third one that isn't linked to any account. But nowhere in their T&C's does it state you need to contact them from the registered email address (because that would be an unfair term). Theres also the strong possibility that OP told them the listing details - because if a company comes back and says "we have nothing under your name" you're probably going to reply something like "there was a listing for 4 tickets to orbital that I made on x date".



    As per marliepanda's post suggests I think you might have misread the OP. The seller's email address wasn't used to cancel the sale- just a similar one which they rightly ignored. Imagine the scenario if anyone using a look a like email could interfere with another users account. Say for instance I listed something as soolin@googlemail.com and someone else could set up an email account soolin@gmail.com and have access to my listings. Not only is that an issue for me, but surely an issue to the company under the data protection laws?
    Originally posted by soolin
    I didn't misread anything - as above theres nothing saying you have to contact them from your registered email address (and if there was, it would be an unfair term).

    No DPA issue - plenty of details the OP could have confirmed to prove his identity. Date of listing, how many tickets, address, DOB, last 4 digits of the registered credit/debit card etc. Kind of amazed by your suggestion of this tbh - how do companies normally satisfy the DPA requirements when a customer contacts them by email when they might never have used email to contact them before, let alone have a registered email address? Or when we contact them by phone?
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 13th May 18, 4:20 PM
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    marliepanda
    An unfair term?

    This is insane.

    As far as viagogo are concerned person A can not cancel listings on person Bs account. The OP never checked properly on either of their accounts if the listings were cancelled.

    Seriously people need to take responsibility for themselves. If the OP came on here saying that viagogo cancelled their listings because someone else asked them to, and now they have no money for their tickets you!!!8217;d be saying how terrible viagogo had acted in taking someone else!!!8217;s word for it
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 13th May 18, 4:33 PM
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    shaun from Africa
    But nowhere in their T&C's does it state you need to contact them from the registered email address (because that would be an unfair term).
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Would it be an unfair term under Swiss law? and if so, which actual law covers it?
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 13th May 18, 4:44 PM
    • 12,660 Posts
    • 17,205 Thanks
    MothballsWallet
    As per marliepanda's post suggests I think you might have misread the OP. The seller's email address wasn't used to cancel the sale- just a similar one which they rightly ignored. Imagine the scenario if anyone using a look a like email could interfere with another users account. Say for instance I listed something as soolin@googlemail.com and someone else could set up an email account soolin@gmail.com and have access to my listings. Not only is that an issue for me, but surely an issue to the company under the data protection laws?
    Originally posted by soolin
    Just a side note, but soolin@googlemail.com and soolin@gmail.com are the same email address: Google moved the @googlemail.com addresses over to their @gmail.com equivalents a number of years ago.
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?
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    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 13th May 18, 4:51 PM
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    marliepanda
    Just a side note, but soolin@googlemail.com and soolin@gmail.com are the same email address: Google moved the @googlemail.com addresses over to their @gmail.com equivalents a number of years ago.
    Originally posted by MothballsWallet
    Only for email.

    You can still setup accounts with both emails.

    The only time it is interchangeable is for actual emails. Sounds like the OP was logged into the incorrect account initially whilst messaging viagogo and couldn’t cancel his listings (or going round in circles as described in the OP) because he didn’t have any listings.

    OP, IMO, did not do enough to ensure his listings were cancelled. He never got cancellation confirmation and never checked his accounts properly. All he did was get a response saying ‘account X has no active listings’ which was factually correct.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th May 18, 4:52 PM
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    unholyangel
    Would it be an unfair term under Swiss law? and if so, which actual law covers it?
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    All of our consumer rights come from EU law - all of them.

    Switzerland is not part of the EU etc but they are part of the single market and as such, have to adopt EU laws (at least as far as they pertain to the single market) - although they don't get any input into what those laws are.

    I would've thought everyone would be aware of nuances like that given they've been discussed in detail over the last 2 years since the vote on brexit.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 13th May 18, 5:31 PM
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    Fosterdog
    OP didn't say what email he contacted them with. He may have used the other one (the one his account wasn't listed on) or he may have used a third one that isn't linked to any account. But nowhere in their T&C's does it state you need to contact them from the registered email address (because that would be an unfair term). Theres also the strong possibility that OP told them the listing details - because if a company comes back and says "we have nothing under your name" you're probably going to reply something like "there was a listing for 4 tickets to orbital that I made on x date".





    I didn't misread anything - as above theres nothing saying you have to contact them from your registered email address (and if there was, it would be an unfair term).

    No DPA issue - plenty of details the OP could have confirmed to prove his identity. Date of listing, how many tickets, address, DOB, last 4 digits of the registered credit/debit card etc. Kind of amazed by your suggestion of this tbh - how do companies normally satisfy the DPA requirements when a customer contacts them by email when they might never have used email to contact them before, let alone have a registered email address? Or when we contact them by phone?
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    What you say would hold some merit if there was just one account, or if they were informed of the possibility of multiple accounts, however OP had somehow managed to create two separate accounts, one using each email address so while it may be a valid argument for him to have contacted them from xxx@outlook.com as a completely different address from one used on an account giving all of the details to confirm identity he instead contacted them from an email address of one of their account holders and didn't do anything to specify to them that it was a different account he was contacting them about.

    They are not mind readers so if one of their members contacts them from a registered email address it would be entirely fair for them to assume that it is the account being questioned, why would they even consider that it may be a different account unless they are told? It may well be a breach of their terms holding more than one account in the first place.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th May 18, 6:08 PM
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    unholyangel
    What you say would hold some merit if there was just one account, or if they were informed of the possibility of multiple accounts, however OP had somehow managed to create two separate accounts, one using each email address so while it may be a valid argument for him to have contacted them from xxx@outlook.com as a completely different address from one used on an account giving all of the details to confirm identity he instead contacted them from an email address of one of their account holders and didn't do anything to specify to them that it was a different account he was contacting them about.

    They are not mind readers so if one of their members contacts them from a registered email address it would be entirely fair for them to assume that it is the account being questioned, why would they even consider that it may be a different account unless they are told? It may well be a breach of their terms holding more than one account in the first place.
    Originally posted by Fosterdog
    Why would they have to be mind readers? Particularly if OP told them the listing reference/gave them the link to the listing.

    I've been in similar circumstances (as their customer service agents) and in those circumstances you might ask them if they're sure it was definitely our company (people do sometimes get confused), do they have a reference number, whats their details/if they might have used different details etc.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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