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  • FIRST POST
    • Littlehelp
    • By Littlehelp 9th May 18, 10:25 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Littlehelp
    Need help with CEL Defended claim
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 10:25 AM
    Need help with CEL Defended claim 9th May 18 at 10:25 AM
    Hi everybody,

    I was wondering if someone could please give me some advice, I've read the newbies threads on this subject and various other threads but if I'm perfectly honest, I'm not good with this sort of thing at all and as many times as I read it it's still all going over my head! So if someone could explain in very simple terms what I need to do next, I'd be very grateful.

    I received a parking fine from Civil Enforcement Limited for staying in a 2 hour limit car park too long, I ignored it at first as recommended by a friend, but then got the first court letter so read the forums and managed to put together a defence.

    I received a letter a few days ago from the court telling me that it is now a defended claim and I need to fill in the Directions Questionnaire.

    There was no copy of their defence attached, that part has been crossed out.

    I'm starting to feel very anxious about this as I don't think I'll be able to go to court and defend myself as this all above my abilities! But at the same time I really can't afford to pay the now, 300 + fine.

    Any help would be very much appreciated!!

    Thank you
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th May 18, 10:37 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,269 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 10:37 AM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 10:37 AM
    OK, so what EXACTLY did you put in your defence?

    Of course they havent sent in their "defence". They are the claimant....they have a claim, you are the defendant, you have a defence...

    You will have seen, from reading other threads, that CEL do NOT actually turn up to defended court claims

    You need to read POST 2 of the thread, it tells you exactly what to do with the DQ.
    • Littlehelp
    • By Littlehelp 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Littlehelp
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    Hi,
    Thank you for responding to me. I have followed your advice and filled in the DQ.

    At the bottom it says to serve copies to all of the parties but I'm unsure whether to send the copy to CEL's address or if I'm supposed to send it to their solicitor.

    Here's the defence that I sent...

    "In the matter of court claim xxxxxxxx, I am xxxxxxxx, the
    defendant in this matter. I assert that I am not liable to the
    Claimant for the sum claimed or any amount at all, for the
    following reasons, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of
    every element of its claim, all of which is not admitted.

    1) The Claimant is a serial litigant whose business model is to
    file large numbers of spurious claims and pressure defendants into
    paying up by sending letters increasing costs. In a preliminary
    hearing for a number of cases in Bristol, HHJ Denyer expressed his
    concern at the way CEL were conducting their cases and described
    the letters as a disgrace.
    2) It is submitted that neither the Claim form or additional
    particulars of claim meet the requirements of practice directions
    and civil procedures.

    3) The Claim form itself is invalid, not meeting the requirements
    of CPR as signed as 'Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimants Legal
    Representative)' and not by a named individual.
    4) The Claimant is put to strict proof their ability to issue and
    pursue charges at this location and that they have a valid
    contract in their name
    with the Landowner to instigate any legal action. A full
    contemperanous and unredacted contract with the landowner showing
    a clear chain of
    authority is required to demonstrate the Claimant' s ability to
    pursue the charge. Additionally, The Caimant is put to strict
    proof the accuracy
    of any ANPR and that their signs have the relevant
    advertising/planning consents
    5) The Claimant has not adduced any evidence of any breach of
    terms, or that their signs meet requirements under their ATA Code
    of Practice or that
    the signs comply with requirements under the Consumer Contracts
    (Information,Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013
    (CCR) and that
    any terms are not onerous or fail any test under the Consumer
    Rights Act 2015.
    6) The Claimant has not disclosed if proceedings are being issued
    against me as the keeper or the puported driver. It is submitted
    that as the keeper,
    I cannot be held liable for the charge as the Claimant does not
    rely on Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom's Act 2012 nor
    comply with the
    statutory requirements of the Act. As no evidence has been adduced
    as to the driver's identity prior to the claim and as keeper
    liability cannot
    be invoked, it is submitted the Claimant has no further grounds
    for pursuit of this claim against me.

    7) The Claim amount far exceeeds the total permitted for recovery
    for a parking charge amount under the Claimant's ATA Code of
    Practice, it is
    submitted that the Claimant has artificially inflated the claim by
    failing to issue proceedings following their letter before action,
    instead
    passing the matter to a debt collector first where there is no
    basis for additional charges.
    8) The Claimant is a serial abuser of the courts in this way,
    filing over 3,000 claims in 2014. However, it is widely reported
    that the Claimant
    fails to turn up to defended cases, wasting the court!!!8217;s and the
    defendant!!!8217;s time
    9) I therefore ask that that the claim be struck out as having no
    prospect of success, and bring to the courts attention a similar
    order made in the
    case of Premier Park Limited v Lisa Grafton, A3QK0712, struck out
    on 19 March 2015. As the Claimant is not likely to attend court
    even if the claim
    progresses, this will save costs all round.
    10) In the event the claim progresses, then as an unrepresented
    litigant in person, I reserve the right to alter, vary and add to
    this defence or
    reply to any further particulars of claim/documents the Claimant
    may provide."

    Many thanks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    At the bottom it says to serve copies to all of the parties but I'm unsure whether to send the copy to CEL's address or if I'm supposed to send it to their solicitor.
    Originally posted by Littlehelp
    You send it to the entity named in the Claimant box on the Claim Form to the address given there.
    .
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 26th May 18, 11:23 AM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 26th May 18, 11:23 AM
    • #5
    • 26th May 18, 11:23 AM
    @ happyslave


    You need to start your own thread and not hijack someone else's like this


    Copy and paste your post into a new thread then delete it from this thread which is devoted to Littlehelp!
    • Littlehelp
    • By Littlehelp 18th Jun 18, 4:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Littlehelp
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 18, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 18, 4:24 PM
    Hi everyone.

    I have just received the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing) letter.

    It says on the letter "Parties to serve and copy file documents by 4pm on ... (not too far away!)"

    I've been back through the threads but like I said earlier, I very much struggle with following this kind of thing. I know I need to make a witness statement but I'm not sure where to start or how to even word it and I'm not sure what else needs to be included other than the Witness statement.

    Also I don't know what they mean by 'File and serve' - do I just post a copy to my chosen court?

    Hope someone can help me as I really don't have a lot of time to get this together.

    Thank you
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 18th Jun 18, 5:47 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 18, 5:47 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 18, 5:47 PM
    Why not tell us the date your WS must be "filed and served" by?

    "Filed and Served" means 'filed' with the court and 'served' on the other party. You must send a copy to the named court - possibly hand delivered, ans send a copy to the Claimant - again at the address on the Claim Form.

    Post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread offers lots of guidance on how to create a Witness Statement.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Jun 18, 11:33 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 18th Jun 18, 11:33 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jun 18, 11:33 PM
    There are example WS in the NEWBIES thread, underneath the example defences.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Littlehelp
    • By Littlehelp 19th Jun 18, 10:45 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Littlehelp
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 18, 10:45 AM
    Thanks!
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 18, 10:45 AM
    Thanks for your help.

    I didn't put the exact date as I didn't have the letter to hand, but it was a roughly a week from receiving the letter that I needed to file and serve - is it always that short?

    I'll try and find the information you mentioned, is it literally just my witness statement I need to send then?

    Thanks again!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 19th Jun 18, 11:23 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,269 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Its unusually short.

    Show us the letter. I imagine hteyre asking for JUSt a WS now, and the full bundle later?
    You cant give us half a story and look for definitive answers
    • Littlehelp
    • By Littlehelp 19th Jun 18, 3:34 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Littlehelp
    As I'm new to the forum it wont allow me to attach links or images yet.

    The letter is dated June 10th and says;

    "1.Hearing of the small claim will be 21st of September with a time estimate of 1 hour

    2. Parties to serve and file copy documents by 4;00pm on 25th of June

    3. Witness statements must be included in the document filed and served, this includes statements from the parties themselves if they are giving evidence"

    Thanks again
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jun 18, 3:43 PM
    • 10,002 Posts
    • 9,829 Thanks
    The Deep
    I'm starting to feel very anxious about this as I don't think I'll be able to go to court and defend myself as this all above my abilities! But at the same time I really can't afford to pay the now, 300 + fine.

    It is not a fine, it is an invoice which you dispute.

    It is not a bit frightening, just a table and chairs, you all sit round it, tell your story, a judge asks some questions, and gives his decision not a bit like that old posturing queen Rinder and his histrionics at all. It is a scam, and the judge knows it.

    Even if the other side wins, the judge is unlikely to ward them more than 200.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 19-06-2018 at 3:46 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 19th Jun 18, 6:06 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    Have you seen this video?...

    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jun 18, 6:40 PM
    • 10,002 Posts
    • 9,829 Thanks
    The Deep
    OP, I was in court last week and it was exactly thus.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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