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    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 9:12 AM
    • 22Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Shabbycat
    Moving back home from abroad
    • #1
    • 7th May 18, 9:12 AM
    Moving back home from abroad 7th May 18 at 9:12 AM
    My father who is 86 is a UK citizen living with his wife in Florida. She is a US citizen but may have dual nationality as she was born in the UK (age 90). We want to bring them back to England as with age they have grown very isolated. They both have health problems and would need to go into residential care. They have some savings, a house to sell and pensions.Having looked at the cost of suitable care homes (£10k per month), with family chipping in we anticipate they have enough money to last two to three years. Can anybody tell me when they would be entitled to local authority assistance with the care home fees due to them having lived in the US for thirty years. I appreciate their saving would have to fall below the £23,500 threshold. Thank you.
Page 1
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 7th May 18, 9:39 AM
    • 7,919 Posts
    • 17,328 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    • #2
    • 7th May 18, 9:39 AM
    • #2
    • 7th May 18, 9:39 AM
    My father who is 86 is a UK citizen living with his wife in Florida. She is a US citizen but may have dual nationality as she was born in the UK (age 90). We want to bring them back to England as with age they have grown very isolated. They both have health problems and would need to go into residential care. They have some savings, a house to sell and pensions.Having looked at the cost of suitable care homes (£10k per month), with family chipping in we anticipate they have enough money to last two to three years. Can anybody tell me when they would be entitled to local authority assistance with the care home fees due to them having lived in the US for thirty years. I appreciate their saving would have to fall below the £23,500 threshold. Thank you.
    Originally posted by Shabbycat
    Age UK have some factsheets on older people returningt o the UK after living abroad. They may also be able to signpost you to specialist advisors if necessary.
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 10:20 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    • #3
    • 7th May 18, 10:20 AM
    • #3
    • 7th May 18, 10:20 AM
    I've looked at the Age UK site and forwarded some of the factsheets to my Dad as they do contain a lot of useful information. I know that he will have to pass he habitual residence test which I am hopeful about as all his children and grand children live in the UK, he will be making it his permanent residence and would have started self funding. In the datasheets it states meeting the terms of HRT can take up to three months, does this mean that after three months if he ran out of money, local authority assistance would kick in?? Like I say they have funds to last longer than that but the answer to this will help determine which care home they go in to.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 7th May 18, 11:13 AM
    • 5,712 Posts
    • 26,251 Thanks
    thorsoak
    • #4
    • 7th May 18, 11:13 AM
    • #4
    • 7th May 18, 11:13 AM
    I don't think that either would be entitled to state help as they have not contributed to NI - and neither will he pass the habitual residence test as they have lived in the USA for so long.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 7th May 18, 11:33 AM
    • 963 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    • #5
    • 7th May 18, 11:33 AM
    • #5
    • 7th May 18, 11:33 AM
    I am not sure that paying NI ever comes in to the equation?
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 11:34 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    • #6
    • 7th May 18, 11:34 AM
    • #6
    • 7th May 18, 11:34 AM
    My Dad paid full National Insurance while he was working in the UK til he was 55 and then continued to pay until he was 65 so is fully paid up. Not sure about his wife, I know she worked for several years in the UK but don't know for how long.
    • ognum
    • By ognum 7th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • 4,587 Posts
    • 7,208 Thanks
    ognum
    • #7
    • 7th May 18, 11:50 AM
    • #7
    • 7th May 18, 11:50 AM
    I've looked at the Age UK site and forwarded some of the factsheets to my Dad as they do contain a lot of useful information. I know that he will have to pass he habitual residence test which I am hopeful about as all his children and grand children live in the UK, he will be making it his permanent residence and would have started self funding. In the datasheets it states meeting the terms of HRT can take up to three months, does this mean that after three months if he ran out of money, local authority assistance would kick in?? Like I say they have funds to last longer than that but the answer to this will help determine which care home they go in to.
    Originally posted by Shabbycat
    I think there are multiple factors to consider. You father and step mother may gain habitual or ordinary residency but you wonít know until they are here as it canít be claimed from abroad so they will have to take pot luck and hope. I think there is more of a problem for the wife than your father.

    If the local authority take over provision of care if their assets run out they will be provided care in the institution of the LAs choice no Your or theirs. There is a cap on the spending level and whitest undoubtedly some of the homes are good some are less good.

    Have they considered moving to a retirement community in the US, The you are many and varied but the privately funded retirement provision in the US is more varied than here.

    I guess one of the problems is the reduction of state care here that is ongoing. Many people who should or could be in suppported care are actually cared for in their homes so the criteria for care is quite difficult to meet.

    I will not go into the ethical question as to whether someone who has chosen to not contribute into the system for for thirty years since the age of 56 and another who has never contributed should be provided with care by the U.K. government but there will be many opinions on that.
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    • #8
    • 7th May 18, 12:21 PM
    • #8
    • 7th May 18, 12:21 PM
    Thank you for your reply. I agree, I think they need to come over and see what happens. I fully appreciate that there will be differing views about this and can understand why. My Dad has been in ill health since his forties and was one of the factors in moving abroad in the first place. His wife's family are in a position to fund her care when they run out of money so is less of an issue. Unfortunately my contribution won't be sufficient to fully meet the gap between his pension and the cost. Unfortunately due to his ill health, L.A. funding may not even come into play.
    US has not been ruled out yet, we are still exploring options but feel having family near them in the last couple of years would be good for them.
    • ognum
    • By ognum 7th May 18, 12:33 PM
    • 4,587 Posts
    • 7,208 Thanks
    ognum
    • #9
    • 7th May 18, 12:33 PM
    • #9
    • 7th May 18, 12:33 PM
    Thank you for your reply. I agree, I think they need to come over and see what happens. I fully appreciate that there will be differing views about this and can understand why. My Dad has been in ill health since his forties and was one of the factors in moving abroad in the first place. His wife's family are in a position to fund her care when they run out of money so is less of an issue. Unfortunately my contribution won't be sufficient to fully meet the gap between his pension and the cost. Unfortunately due to his ill health, L.A. funding may not even come into play.
    US has not been ruled out yet, we are still exploring options but feel having family near them in the last couple of years would be good for them.
    Originally posted by Shabbycat
    I appreciate your dilemma, many people when making life decisions in their fifties do not appreciate the factors that may occur when they are in their 80s.

    How will her family cope if she moves across the Atlantic. It seems it is either the wife who will have long distance family or your father.

    Good luck in finding a positive outcome.
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 12:54 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    Her family are in England too, hence the isolation.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
    • 5,712 Posts
    • 26,251 Thanks
    thorsoak
    This might be of assistance to you :- https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs25_returning_from_abroad_fcs.pdf
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 7th May 18, 3:24 PM
    • 29,777 Posts
    • 76,287 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Having looked at the cost of suitable care homes (£10k per month), with family chipping in we anticipate they have enough money to last two to three years. Can anybody tell me when they would be entitled to local authority assistance with the care home fees due to them having lived in the US for thirty years.
    Originally posted by Shabbycat
    Even if the council does take over the bills, thereís no way they will cover those costs. Each council has a limit that they will pay - find out yours before choosing a home.

    It would be unwise to top up while they are self-funding - that money will be of more use later.
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 7th May 18, 7:14 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    Thank you all for the replies. Had a meeting with my step sister today and I think we are going to hold off for a year, get them some extra help and all save up so they can pay for themselves a bit longer.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 8th May 18, 9:26 AM
    • 4,057 Posts
    • 6,476 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    Thank you for your reply. I agree, I think they need to come over and see what happens. I fully appreciate that there will be differing views about this and can understand why. My Dad has been in ill health since his forties and was one of the factors in moving abroad in the first place. His wife's family are in a position to fund her care when they run out of money so is less of an issue. Unfortunately my contribution won't be sufficient to fully meet the gap between his pension and the cost. Unfortunately due to his ill health, L.A. funding may not even come into play.
    US has not been ruled out yet, we are still exploring options but feel having family near them in the last couple of years would be good for them.
    Originally posted by Shabbycat
    They moved to the US when he was in his forties because he was in bad health?
    • ognum
    • By ognum 8th May 18, 9:58 AM
    • 4,587 Posts
    • 7,208 Thanks
    ognum
    They moved to the US when he was in his forties because he was in bad health?
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    Op says he has been in bad health since his forties and has lived in the US for thirty years. He is now 86, my maths which seem to be different to yours say he was 56 when he moved there!
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 8th May 18, 10:04 AM
    • 4,057 Posts
    • 6,476 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    Op says he has been in bad health since his forties and has lived in the US for thirty years. He is now 86, my maths which seem to be different to yours say he was 56 when he moved there!
    Originally posted by ognum
    Thanks for the correction, I don't know where I got that from.

    However, that still means that he moved to the US when in poor health, which seemed like a "brave" thing to do.
    • Shabbycat
    • By Shabbycat 10th May 18, 11:51 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shabbycat
    He has emphysema. In his fifties he met and fell in love with a British woman that lived in Florida so the move seemed a good idea at the time and I doubt he regrets it, even when paying his medical bills for the last 30 years!!! I think I need to start paying the lottery!!
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 12th May 18, 10:01 AM
    • 1,919 Posts
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    Fireflyaway
    Are they 100% sure about moving to the uk?
    My husband has suggested his mum should move to the uk as he is worried about her being lonely and in poor health but I think it would satisfy him ( being able to actually see her rather than phone calls which can cause you to worry) more then her. She still works and has friends and family including her children and grandkids but here she would only have us and we work all day!
    Your situation sounds different but just ensure its really what they want.
    • buildersdaughter
    • By buildersdaughter 13th May 18, 7:48 AM
    • 219 Posts
    • 526 Thanks
    buildersdaughter
    Can I add another note of caution? You are talking about funding 'care' in general, but I am not sure if your figure includes health care specifically. Our arcane rules around entitlement are (if I am correct, please check) that NHS care is given on the basis of residence, so your dad & step-mum (and maybe Firefly's MiL) would not be entitled to it, at least for some time. I am not sure if having paid NI make a difference, but I think not to NHS care.
    Nearly all care & nursing homes quote fees on the understanding that medical care is provided by the NHS, and I understand you would need to ask specifically about private medical care (also specialist nursing, physio etc.)
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 13th May 18, 9:10 AM
    • 963 Posts
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    Flugelhorn
    Have been looking into this recently - basically GP care is free and if they have an address, intending to stay permanently in the country and better still have an NHS number then that is all that is needed.
    re secondary care it appears that they have to be ordinarily (ie not just nipping over here for some treatment) and legally resident.
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