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  • FIRST POST
    • Bella del Rey
    • By Bella del Rey 4th May 18, 12:34 AM
    • 2Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Bella del Rey
    Legal Charge over My Home
    • #1
    • 4th May 18, 12:34 AM
    Legal Charge over My Home 4th May 18 at 12:34 AM
    Good evening,

    I壇 be most grateful for any advise as my estranged husband has got us into a financial mess.......

    To cut a very long and unbelievable story short, he decided to prioritise non priorities instead of paying school fees amongst other things.

    The school is now being paid 」2k per month by my estranged husband although this took him months to do. However, they池e also insisting on a legal charge. There are arrears on the repayment mortgage but the monthly interest is being paid although primarily by me. I知 concerned that the Bank will not renew the interest only option which is renewed every 3 months if they don稚 see improvements in the situation. I知 assuming these improvements mean, that the home is sold or that we start paying off the arrears.....?

    I explained my concerns to the school as I知 worried about being repossessed but they showed no empathy nor compassion for my sons who were once their pupils. For an institution to have charitable status (in order to pay less taxes) and behave like an aggressive creditor does raise some questions so may lobby my local MP!

    The solicitors acting for them advise that as my eldest son is now 18, he値l need to give his permission to the legal charge. What are the implications if he say, chooses not to sign?

    Can anyone help?

    Many thanks

    Bella
Page 1
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 4th May 18, 12:38 AM
    • 8,500 Posts
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    pogofish
    • #2
    • 4th May 18, 12:38 AM
    • #2
    • 4th May 18, 12:38 AM
    You actually live in a credit card and manage to stooze with it at the same time - Wow...!
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 4th May 18, 1:43 AM
    • 1,624 Posts
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    badmemory
    • #3
    • 4th May 18, 1:43 AM
    • #3
    • 4th May 18, 1:43 AM
    The problem is that these institutions apply for charitable status simply to avoid taxes. They seem to rarely actually be very charitable. I have no idea of the answer to your question but just wanted to express my sympathy for your position. Hopefully someone will be along shortly who can provide you with an answer.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 4th May 18, 5:54 AM
    • 2,604 Posts
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    unforeseen
    • #4
    • 4th May 18, 5:54 AM
    • #4
    • 4th May 18, 5:54 AM
    They may be a charity but you have had a service from them so they want to ensure that they get paid for it.

    It sounds like they struggled to get you/husband to start paying the debt so now want some protection.

    If they can't get some sort of protection for their debt then think what their other options will be to get the money. It sounds like they have been patient up to now but that could be running very thin.
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 4th May 18, 6:48 AM
    • 1,429 Posts
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    Shakin Steve
    • #5
    • 4th May 18, 6:48 AM
    • #5
    • 4th May 18, 6:48 AM
    You actually live in a credit card and manage to stooze with it at the same time - Wow...!
    Originally posted by pogofish
    I'm sure the OP will be horrified that she posted in the wrong section. Thank goodness that we have people with nothing better to do to point it out.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 4th May 18, 11:56 AM
    • 2,432 Posts
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    Vortigern
    • #6
    • 4th May 18, 11:56 AM
    • #6
    • 4th May 18, 11:56 AM
    The solicitors acting for them advise that as my eldest son is now 18, he値l need to give his permission to the legal charge.
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    While your son may have received a private education, I doubt that he personally is contractually obliged to pay for it. The debt should be the parents' responsibility, not his.

    Unless your son is somehow the owner or co-owner of your house I doubt that he can authorise a legal charge.

    Perhaps board guide could move this thread to a more appropriate part of the forum?
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 5th May 18, 12:39 AM
    • 8,500 Posts
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    pogofish
    • #7
    • 5th May 18, 12:39 AM
    • #7
    • 5th May 18, 12:39 AM
    I'm sure the OP will be horrified that she posted in the wrong section. Thank goodness that we have people with nothing better to do to point it out.
    Originally posted by Shakin Steve
    OP had all the resources needed to find and post in an appropriate forum laid-before them as part of their signup..!
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 5th May 18, 7:43 AM
    • 6,342 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #8
    • 5th May 18, 7:43 AM
    • #8
    • 5th May 18, 7:43 AM
    Whilst many independent schools are charities, they probably cannot continue to function if parents don't pay their school fees. (The teachers wages etc have to be paid.)

    It sounds like your sons are now ex-pupils, so given that there is a large debt, I guess the school continued to educate them when no fees were being paid (which seems fairly compassionate).

    And at the time, it sounds like the fees were not paid through choice, rather than financial difficulties.


    You probably need to find out more about the terms of the proposed payment arrangement. For example, it could be that the school said:

    We will accept 」2k a month plus a charge on your house, or we will take you to court to claim the full amount.

    If that suggestion was correct, and your son refused to sign the charge, I guess the school would go down the court route.
    • Sncjw
    • By Sncjw 5th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • 1,778 Posts
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    Sncjw
    • #9
    • 5th May 18, 8:44 AM
    • #9
    • 5th May 18, 8:44 AM
    Charitable because they give scholarships to people who have the chance to pass their tests and who can!!!8217;t afforf to go.

    They still need paying as agreeged whentou signed the contract to send the kids the school
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 5th May 18, 9:00 AM
    • 9,434 Posts
    • 10,438 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    What Vortigern said, the son can no more agree to a charge over parents house than I could and I'm sure solicitors will be aware of that ! Something is missing from the telling.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 5th May 18, 11:40 AM
    • 1,884 Posts
    • 1,749 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    This doesn't make sense. As others have said, your son is not needed to authorise the charge, unless he is a co-owner of the house. The debt is yours and your husband's, not your son's.

    Many independent schools are charities (although not all), but they are also businesses. They charge fees for their services (like any other business) and they are entitled to expect those fees to be paid. They also provide charitable financial assistance through bursaries to some pupils whose families could not afford the full fees, and further charitable assistance in the form of scholarships, to those pupils who display particular talent in a specific area, e.g. academic, music, sport. They are not charities because they can be used to provide an education at no cost to anyone who fails to pay the bill. Their charitable status means that they do not make a profit, but that all funds are re-invested in the core charitable purpose, i.e. education of children.

    Many independent schools show extraordinary goodwill, well beyond what many other businesses would, by continuing to educate children whose parents are in arrears. This can extend over a significant period of time, with some children actually benefitting from up to two years of education without payment (to the end of a Key Stage). However, even in this position, the school will ultimately expect to be paid, and to this end will try to come to an arrangement with parents that allows them to make the necessary repayments.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 5th May 18, 4:54 PM
    • 24,774 Posts
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    jonesMUFCforever
    This doesn't make sense. As others have said, your son is not needed to authorise the charge, unless he is a co-owner of the house. The debt is yours and your husband's, not your son's..
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    It may be the parents debt but there is a legal precedent (sorry can't remember the name of the rule) that to be able to apply for realisation of the charge, ie kick them out, all adults having the right to live there, have to sign a disclaimer.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 5th May 18, 5:49 PM
    • 1,906 Posts
    • 2,801 Thanks
    shortcrust
    It may be the parents debt but there is a legal precedent (sorry can't remember the name of the rule) that to be able to apply for realisation of the charge, ie kick them out, all adults having the right to live there, have to sign a disclaimer.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    Spot on. When parents remortgage their children have to sign the same if they池e over 18. I had to do this when mine remortgaged more than 20 years ago.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 5th May 18, 6:35 PM
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    ValiantSon
    It may be the parents debt but there is a legal precedent (sorry can't remember the name of the rule) that to be able to apply for realisation of the charge, ie kick them out, all adults having the right to live there, have to sign a disclaimer.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    Now you've said that I remember. Yes, this is true! Thanks for reminding me.
    • Bella del Rey
    • By Bella del Rey 6th May 18, 10:44 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Bella del Rey
    Yes, my son will need to sign but does anyone know the answer should he not want to sign? I haven!!!8217;t approached the subject with him as yet!

    Thank you.

    Bella

    PS. For those that feel qualified to pass judgement, I know that I entered a contract to pay as I!!!8217;d been doing so for years.
    However, I didn!!!8217;t know that my husband would run off with a trollope 22 years his junior, spend tens of thousands on her, hide monies, deny me access to money and stop paying fees and there!!!8217;s more but superfluous here!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 6th May 18, 11:09 PM
    • 38,500 Posts
    • 35,160 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I explained my concerns to the school as I知 worried about being repossessed but they showed no empathy nor compassion for my sons who were once their pupils. For an institution to have charitable status (in order to pay less taxes) and behave like an aggressive creditor does raise some questions so may lobby my local MP!
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    Charity Trustees are required to act in the best interests of the charity. NOT pursuing payment of the overdue fees would not be in the best interests of the charity.

    One might argue that the school didn't take steps early enough, but that would be an entirely separate matter.

    The solicitors acting for them advise that as my eldest son is now 18, he値l need to give his permission to the legal charge. What are the implications if he say, chooses not to sign?
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    I'd have thought his refusal to sign would make repossession more likely, just as it would make a sale impossible if you were planning to sell and he refused to sign the forms required in that case.

    Yes, my son will need to sign but does anyone know the answer should he not want to sign? I haven't approached the subject with him as yet!
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    Personally, I think I'd make it clear that if he wanted to continue to live in the family home, he needed to sign the document allowing the legal charge. The alternative will be very unpretty.
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    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 6th May 18, 11:10 PM
    • 1,884 Posts
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    ValiantSon
    Yes, my son will need to sign but does anyone know the answer should he not want to sign? I haven!!!8217;t approached the subject with him as yet!

    Thank you.

    Bella

    PS. For those that feel qualified to pass judgement, I know that I entered a contract to pay as I!!!8217;d been doing so for years.
    However, I didn!!!8217;t know that my husband would run off with a trollope 22 years his junior, spend tens of thousands on her, hide monies, deny me access to money and stop paying fees and there!!!8217;s more but superfluous here!
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    Should your son choose not to sign the paperwork allowing for the charge then it is possible that the school will take enforcement action to recover the debt, i.e. they will no longer honour the repayment plan that you have agreed, take you to court, and as a result, cripple your credit rating. I suggest that you tell him that he needs to sign this so that you can pay the outstanding fees. Once the fees are paid the charge should be removed.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 9th May 18, 7:33 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,011 Thanks
    John-K
    Yes, my son will need to sign but does anyone know the answer should he not want to sign? I haven!!!8217;t approached the subject with him as yet!

    Thank you.

    Bella

    PS. For those that feel qualified to pass judgement, I know that I entered a contract to pay as I!!!8217;d been doing so for years.
    However, I didn!!!8217;t know that my husband would run off with a trollope 22 years his junior, spend tens of thousands on her, hide monies, deny me access to money and stop paying fees and there!!!8217;s more but superfluous here!
    Originally posted by Bella del Rey
    As long as there was a clause in the contract saying that you would be let off under these circumstances then you are fine.

    If, as I suspect, you agreed to pay irrespective of your relationship then I do not think it is relevant.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 25th May 18, 4:12 PM
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    • 13,306 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hi,

    In order for a charging order to be granted, the school must first take you to court and obtain judgement in their favour.

    Before this even happens they must follow the pre-action protocol, and a court may decide the claim is unwarranted as the debt is already being paid.

    Are both you and your husband liable for the debt ?

    Are you both named on the deeds ?

    If yes, then a charging order can be granted if they get a CCJ.


    If your son is not named on the house deeds as an owner, then he has no beneficial interest at all, and non of this has absolutely anything to do with him.

    Charging orders can only be granted against homeowners.

    Without a CCJ, there is no chance of a charging order or a visit from bailiffs.
    If you dont have a CCJ but a debt collector or solicitor is threatening this sort of thing then dont panic, they are just trying to pressure you into paying them.

    Agreeing to a voluntary charging order is not advisable without first seeking legal advice, the legal system gives you rights which you would basically be throwing away by following this course of action.
    Last edited by sourcrates; Yesterday at 7:51 PM.
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