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  • FIRST POST
    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 23rd Apr 18, 8:00 PM
    • 62Posts
    • 8Thanks
    Silversurreal
    Land owner changed since PCN of 4 months ago
    • #1
    • 23rd Apr 18, 8:00 PM
    Land owner changed since PCN of 4 months ago 23rd Apr 18 at 8:00 PM
    Hi I was visiting and spending a lot of money in Poundstretcher Wymondham Norfolk and had no idea of any limits, just didnt see a sign (apparently it was for 90 mins) This is the only shop there and no other reason to use this car park. There is always only about 4 or 5 cars there as I go late at night just before they close

    I apparently went 15 mins over this, I had 2 trolleys to steer full of Christmas presents, electricals foods toys furnishings pet goods homewares etc, I travelled 15 miles for their closing down sale

    It was their last few days of trading. I had no idea of any parking charge until DRP sent me a 160 charge. The store has since been knocked down and a new LIDL built on the landI I suspect the land owner may be the same, but don't really know!

    I visited the shop about 4 times in December as everything was half price and I bought up big! All the staff knew me, they even help me load the car as I have lots of heavy bulky items. Theyre very friendly and would always help me in any way and we chat for ages! Had I known at the time or someone had warned me of time limits I'd have asked them for an exemption or something! I can't contact anyone there now as the store doesnt exist any more!


    Very unfair as I was a very genuine customer, my only fault it was dark and never saw the signs and bought so much I was in there over 90 mins

    DRP 's threat letter was barely readable, had to really struggle to see the operators name on top right carbon type tiny printing (who are Smart Parking) as the letter was virtually unreadable and the times in and out were printed so finely they couldnt be read either

    I still parked on private land I guess, but as Smart supposedly wrote to me at the same address DRP did and I never received it, I had no idea of what I had done until some 3 months later with the usual court threats etc!

    I have ignored DRP as advised in sticky notes but appealed online to Smart (as when you call to speak to an operater they cut you off every time instead of transferring you) so only way was to view the ticket online - still not very clear as so dark at night!

    Finally a reply by letter to correct address 3 weeks later. They are upholding the charge as I went 15 mins over and have taken all my points into consideration, but still want the money. Although they have referred back to the initial offer of reduced fine if paid in so many days. No apology for never informing me by letter(s) that I'd even received a PCN in time to give me time to pay a reduced fine, just the Debt collectors letter. as I said before. I guess them reducing it was them acknowledging that I was right they had ommitted sending one?

    I probably will pay as they say they'll escalate it again to debt if I don't. They do refer to POPLA but say if my case fails I'll then be over the date allowed for the unknown discount and have to pay full amount..

    Interestingly they dont quote any figures to pay, just an address or phone number to pay by, so I've no idea what this reduced fine is as they never send me an initial letter in the first place! There were one or two spelling mistakes in their letter too, but guess that's just me being pedantic!

    Do I appeal to POPLA and risk becoming one of the unlucky cases who lose? And the worst thing that annoys me is I can't visit the store as it has been knocked down since December so no one there anymore to help or advise! I am gutted that the new land owners forced them to close by buying the land off whoever owned it for years, I got so many supplies in there and was my favourite and much used place to shop for so many things.

    I drove over there the other week to look for signs, but as it was all being dug out and the car park was now a heap of mud, I have no idea if there were signs or not! I could see however a small white camera quite high up in middle of car park!

    The shop didnt want to close down they were forced out a while ago because LIDL bought the land and they all lost their jobs! This was in the local press about 2 years ago when I lived in the area! The papers said LIDL had taken over the land. So they had fair warning. I guess although it is now being dug up, that the signs I never knew were there from 4 months ago were legal at the time!

    I have had so many unfair PCNS over the last few years and have always managed to get out of them by writing direct or the store has offered to sort it out for me. Can I just say that ALDI are wonderful, they just take the letter and plug it into their internal system and you hear no more. LIDL on the other hand are not so nice, they forced my No 1 discount store out of business!

    Advice from the experts on here. Do I now pay SMART even though DRP have hopefully backed off? and what is the amount I'm supposed to pay anyway?, I'm guessing 60 as that seems pretty standard. But how unprofessional to ask me to pay in a few days and nowhere in their paperwork does it state an amount!

    Sorry I'm so long winded. I didn't intend to be, but I'm close to giving up on the battle. No one wants the shock of what they assume is a 160 fine and threats of court action out of the blue!

    Do I write to Poundstretcher HQ as theres no longer any in this area. I'm sure its all too late and Smart say this is my last chance to deal with them! Cowboys for sure, but still legal, I blame the land owners.

    In leaving,this page, do the parking company or the landowners get all this money they accrue off innocent shoppers? Be interested to know Thanks all in advance, this is a wonderful resource and without it I'd have probably panicked even more. I'm sure its saved lots of people money who would have just paid up! Kind regards Julia
    Last edited by Silversurreal; 23-04-2018 at 8:10 PM. Reason: spelling
Page 6
    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 15th May 18, 2:20 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    So nothing in boxes then Coupon, nothing at all?
    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 15th May 18, 2:33 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    I seem a bit short on my SECOND point of appeal, that's all - as I added it last minute as an extra section on advice from here! Is there anything crucial I'm missing?

    2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

    I added this although as an extra point, - although I thought other points covered it, - but havent really put a lot in this section, couldn't find anymore in the templates that applies to me!

    2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

    As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4. This applies regardless of when the first appeal was made and regardless of whether a purported 'NTK' was served or not, because the fact remains I am only appealing as the keeper and ONLY Schedule 4 of the POFA (or evidence of who was driving) can cause a keeper appellant to be deemed to be the liable party.

    The burden of proof rests with the Operator to show that (as an individual) I have personally not complied with terms in place on the land!and!show that I am personally liable for their parking charge. They cannot.

    Furthermore, the vital matter of full compliance with the POFA was confirmed by parking law expert barrister, Henry Greenslade, the previous POPLA Lead Adjudicator, in 2015:
    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 15th May 18, 2:35 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    That wordings a bit messed up! Checking my actual Pdf now to check its not a site text issue!!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 2:35 PM
    • 57,334 Posts
    • 70,935 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It will do, says what it needs to say.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 15th May 18, 2:41 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    CORRECTION


    The burden of proof rests with the Operator to show that (as an individual) I have personally not complied with terms in place on the land or actually show that I am personally liable for their parking charge. So far they cannot!


    Okay all???
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 2:42 PM
    • 57,334 Posts
    • 70,935 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's fine.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 15th May 18, 4:39 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    TO CLARIFY Coupon Mad

    Do I NOT fill in any boxes with any info' just attach files and thats it?

    If so thanks for all your help! x
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 10:35 PM
    • 57,334 Posts
    • 70,935 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You have to put your name etc., and should obviously put 'see attached PDF'.

    Come on, work it out, there are no set rules, just do it like everyone else does; no spoon-feeding needed simply to upload an appeal under 'other', surely.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 16th May 18, 11:59 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    COUPON MAD wrote ....

    Come on, work it out, there are no set rules, just do it like everyone else does; no spoon-feeding needed simply to upload an appeal under 'other', surely.



    Thats exactly what I did thanks, before I read this. I didn't need spoon feeding was just checking. After all the guidance given about getting it right, I wanted to make sure the final steps were correct!
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