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  • FIRST POST
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 22nd Apr 18, 9:07 AM
    • 22Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Lounesbo
    Advice please regarding parking charge notice issued by Care parking at Stretford tram station
    • #1
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:07 AM
    Advice please regarding parking charge notice issued by Care parking at Stretford tram station 22nd Apr 18 at 9:07 AM
    The driver parked on Monday 16th April at approximately 0930am and as the car park was full. The driver parked face to face with another car which had joined the end of the line. This was basically on the edge of the allocated spaces.
    The driver returned at 11am and a ticket had been issued at 1035 am. The ticket states Obstructive parking (point 14). This did not appear to be the case.
    Although it could seem irrelevant when doing the same at the Trafford centre, for example, the drivers have either received a warning or nobody has been penalised.
    Apologies if this an !open and shut case! new to the site!
    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Lounesbo; 22-04-2018 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Advised by other members. I am new and don!!!8217;t know all the rules!
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • 2,805 Posts
    • 3,499 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • #2
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    Have you read the newbies thread? It's tailor made fir first time posters, and easy to find on the first page

    If you had, you'd have seen the identity of the driver is NOT revealed here or anywhere else - so edit your post, now. The driver is called"the driver".
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • 18,340 Posts
    • 29,020 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    Please start by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 which provides initial guidance in how to deal with this. It also includes a ready written initial appeal to use - use it without addition/alteration around day 26.

    Forget about saving the planet - it won't save you from your ticket!

    Also do a forum search on 'Care Stretford' or 'Care Metro' or 'Care Tram' as we've had numerous successful threads about this operation at this site.

    HOW TO USE SEARCH

    Use the Forum Jump button (one near the top and one near bottom of this page) to get back to the forum thread list. Just above the threads, on the right, is a heading along a line, next to forum tools, called 'Search this Forum'. Put your key word(s) in and change the default search from 'Show Threads' to 'Show Posts'.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 22nd Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    • 36,974 Posts
    • 83,584 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    • #4
    • 22nd Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    As above, edit your post to remove information about who parked. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people. Do this NOW before you go to the NEWBIES and send the appeal template from The Keeper that you will find there.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 22nd Apr 18, 10:26 AM
    • 9,682 Posts
    • 9,518 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 22nd Apr 18, 10:26 AM
    • #5
    • 22nd Apr 18, 10:26 AM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 22nd Apr 18, 11:46 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:46 AM
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:46 AM
    Have I done the amendments correctly? Apologies for not knowing the rules correctly as yet
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 22nd Apr 18, 11:54 AM
    • 36,229 Posts
    • 20,506 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:54 AM
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 18, 11:54 AM
    You haven't broken any "rules" regarding the wording of your post


    It is this parking forum advice never to reveal who was driving


    Now you edited your post concentrate on the FAQ - #1 to begin with to get an understanding of the game you are caught up in and how to deal with it - and learn why you shouldn't reveal who was driving
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 22nd Apr 18, 12:16 PM
    • 36,974 Posts
    • 83,584 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 18, 12:16 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 18, 12:16 PM
    Have I done the amendments correctly? Apologies for not knowing the rules correctly as yet
    Originally posted by Lounesbo
    As above, you didn't break any rules but the advice is for your protection. The Keeper has the protection of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012. (POFA).
    The Driver has no such protection, so in most cases the driver's identity should not be revealed.

    Parking scammers monitor these fora, and have been known to use the information posted here to the detriment of the poster.

    So, now The Keeper needs to send the template from the NEWBIES by whatever method is mentioned on the PCN.

    If/when it is rejected, you should then need to read up on PoPLA.

    Please also complain to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP about this unregulated scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 22-04-2018 at 12:27 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 22nd Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    • #9
    • 22nd Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    You are all being super helpful but it seems hard to locate the FAQs for Newbies or the templates. Completed a search for other related issues and that was helpful(& worked) but struggling to find the above.
    So if the parking notice was issued on 16th April the keeper contacts Care parking 26 days after this was issued, is that correct?
    Last edited by Lounesbo; 22-04-2018 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Typos
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 22nd Apr 18, 12:40 PM
    • 36,229 Posts
    • 20,506 Thanks
    Quentin
    The newbies faq thread is near the top of the forum list of threads
    • Redx
    • By Redx 22nd Apr 18, 12:43 PM
    • 18,405 Posts
    • 23,319 Thanks
    Redx
    correct, the KEEPER appeals it on day 26 after the actual event , appealing as keeper and using the template with NO ALTERATIONS (so around the 10th to 12th of MAY)

    search the forum for METROLINK POPLA appeals and follow the same advice as those, cribbing from them for the popla appeal that comes when your initial appeal is rejected

    its important to do all the right steps on this and NEVER reveal who was driving (so the unwritten "rules" are not to use "ME , MYSELF & I") - your edits are now ok BTW

    the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread is the third thread down from the top of this forum

    please read it, but also please read half a dozen METROLINK threads over the last 18 months so you understand where we are coming from

    so appeal as KEEPER on day 26, using the template
    Last edited by Redx; 22-04-2018 at 12:45 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 12th Jun 18, 8:34 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    Appeal rejection enclosed
    Dear super helpful forum folk reply received below via email today. Nothing to keeper in writing. will again access the general forum but would welcome advice to the ;response


    Private & Confidential
    12 June 2018
    Email address
    PARKING CHARGE NOTICE APPEAL xxxxxx PCN NUMBER xxxxxx POPLA VERIFICATION CODE: xxxxxxx
    Dear X
    Your appeal against the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on 16 Apr 18 at Stretford Metrolink for the alleged contravention of Obstructive Parking has been considered by our appeals team, having reviewed the evidence and the details supplied by yourself your appeal has been rejected.
    Your appeal has been rejected for the following reasons:
    -On 16 Apr 18 at 10:35 this vehicle, Registration was parked at Stretford Metrolink in an area outside of a marked parking bay.
    - When parking at Stretford Metrolink trhe driver of this vehicle agreed to pay a Parking Charge of 100 if they did not park in accordance with the terms printed on the contractual warning signs.
    -The contractual warning signs in place state: vehicles must park only within marked bays. The vehicle was parked in contravention of this term of the contractual warning signs when the driver parked the vehicle in this area outside of a marked bay.
    - are signs displaying the terms and conditions for parking on site at regular intervals throughout this site and an entrance sign is in place.
    - The parking of this vehicle at this location was therefore unauthorised and this charge was issued correctly.
    -You are correct that you do not need to name the driver. Regardless of the aforementioned facts, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, covers the requirements of the liability of the charge with regard to the registered keeper. Although you state that you believe the written notice does not comply with the POFA 2012 you have not stated any grounds for this. Therefore, we can only assume that this with the rest of your appeal is cut and pasted from the internet parking forums, which we can evidence at court if required.
    - The signage is larger than the minimum size requirements of the British Parking Associations Approved Operators Scheme Code of Practice.
    - You are welcome to revisit the car park as the Contractual Warning Signs are at different intervals of the car park outlining the parking restrictions in place. Please be aware you must park within a marked bay or you will receive a Parking Charge Notice.
    - The images of your vehicle are linked below, please follow the link and it will direct you to the images taken of your vehicle at the time of the contravention.

    Photographic evidence supporting the issue of this PCN can be viewed by following the link and entering your vehicle registration and PCN reference number. Copies of these photographs are available on request.
    As you appealed outside the 14 day discounted period the full parking charge amount is now due and payable.
    You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This decision is final and no further communication will be accepted by Care Parking with regard to this appeal, therefore you are requested to now submit your payment of the monies owing.
    You now have a number of options from which to choose:
    1. Pay the parking charge.
    2. Make an appeal to POPLA , The Independent Appeals Service by making your appeal online at.
    a. Your POPLA verification code xxxxx. Please be advised that if you opt for
    independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of 60 will immediately end. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you wish to appeal to POPLA this must be done within 28 days of the date of this notification.
    b. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
    3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
    This letter and all other correspondence received in relation to this PCN may be used to form part of our case for court action if necessary.
    Yours sincerely,
    For Appeals Team
    Last edited by Lounesbo; 12-06-2018 at 8:56 PM. Reason: Personal information
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jun 18, 9:02 PM
    • 18,405 Posts
    • 23,319 Thanks
    Redx
    no reponse to be done whatsover


    you do exactly what I told you to do earlier, use the popla code after searching for and adapting a recent METROLINK popla appeal posted by previous thread starters on here


    search the forum for METROLINK POPLA appeals and follow the same advice as those, cribbing from them for the popla appeal that comes when your initial appeal is rejected


    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 12th Jun 18, 9:06 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    I do not ike the fact they make reference to parking Internet forums and copying and pasting documents.
    Last edited by Lounesbo; 12-06-2018 at 9:08 PM. Reason: Jargon
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jun 18, 9:09 PM
    • 18,405 Posts
    • 23,319 Thanks
    Redx
    we dont care what their "response" is or was, its like a spider telling a fly its safe to walk across the web


    until the government sets new regulations on this, trust us when we say they speak with forked tongue


    its just a template response that they hope will frighten the unitiated, full half half truths and lies , dont fall for it


    if bylaws do apply then the PPC cannot enforce a PENALTY notice in the mags court within 6 months, only the TOC can do this
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jun 18, 9:13 PM
    • 1,492 Posts
    • 1,977 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    Dear super helpful forum folk reply received below via email today. Nothing to keeper in writing. will again access the general forum but would welcome advice to the ;response


    Private & Confidential
    12 June 2018
    Email address
    PARKING CHARGE NOTICE APPEAL xxxxxx PCN NUMBER xxxxxx POPLA VERIFICATION CODE: xxxxxxx
    Dear X
    Your appeal against the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on 16 Apr 18 at Stretford Metrolink for the alleged contravention of Obstructive Parking has been considered by our appeals team, having reviewed the evidence and the details supplied by yourself your appeal has been rejected.
    Your appeal has been rejected for the following reasons:
    -On 16 Apr 18 at 10:35 this vehicle, Registration was parked at Stretford Metrolink in an area outside of a marked parking bay.
    - When parking at Stretford Metrolink trhe driver of this vehicle agreed to pay a Parking Charge of 100 if they did not park in accordance with the terms printed on the contractual warning signs.
    -The contractual warning signs in place state: vehicles must park only within marked bays. The vehicle was parked in contravention of this term of the contractual warning signs when the driver parked the vehicle in this area outside of a marked bay.
    - are signs displaying the terms and conditions for parking on site at regular intervals throughout this site and an entrance sign is in place.
    - The parking of this vehicle at this location was therefore unauthorised and this charge was issued correctly.
    -You are correct that you do not need to name the driver. Regardless of the aforementioned facts, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, covers the requirements of the liability of the charge with regard to the registered keeper. Although you state that you believe the written notice does not comply with the POFA 2012 you have not stated any grounds for this. Therefore, we can only assume that this with the rest of your appeal is cut and pasted from the internet parking forums, which we can evidence at court if required.
    - The signage is larger than the minimum size requirements of the British Parking Associations Approved Operators Scheme Code of Practice.

    - You are welcome to revisit the car park as the Contractual Warning Signs are at different intervals of the car park outlining the parking restrictions in place. Please be aware you must park within a marked bay or you will receive a Parking Charge Notice.
    - The images of your vehicle are linked below, please follow the link and it will direct you to the images taken of your vehicle at the time of the contravention.

    Photographic evidence supporting the issue of this PCN can be viewed by following the link and entering your vehicle registration and PCN reference number. Copies of these photographs are available on request.
    As you appealed outside the 14 day discounted period the full parking charge amount is now due and payable.
    You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This decision is final and no further communication will be accepted by Care Parking with regard to this appeal, therefore you are requested to now submit your payment of the monies owing.
    You now have a number of options from which to choose:
    1. Pay the parking charge.
    2. Make an appeal to POPLA , The Independent Appeals Service by making your appeal online at.
    a. Your POPLA verification code xxxxx. Please be advised that if you opt for
    independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of 60 will immediately end. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you wish to appeal to POPLA this must be done within 28 days of the date of this notification.
    b. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
    3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
    This letter and all other correspondence received in relation to this PCN may be used to form part of our case for court action if necessary.
    Yours sincerely,
    For Appeals Team
    Originally posted by Lounesbo
    POFa 2012 does NOT apply at this site as it comes under bylaws , inform them that they must go after the driver not keeper

    BYLAWS should be prominently mentioned to POPLA as well
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 12th Jun 18, 9:17 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    You all really know your stuff- impressive.
    Holiday Thursday so shall note date to make Popla appeal by and locate guidance as indicated.
    I have had no NTK and 57 days have passed.
    Thank you
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jun 18, 9:21 PM
    • 18,405 Posts
    • 23,319 Thanks
    Redx
    excellent, so the popla appeal will major on



    NO NTK
    NO KEEPER LIABILITY
    POFA2012 DOES NOT APPLY

    BYLAWS APPLY
    NO CONTRACT
    POOR AND INDEQUATE SIGNAGE
    NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS


    etc etc


    doesnt matter what the driver did on the day as the keeper is not liable - end of


    hence why people who blab about who was driving on the day , lose !!


    KEEPERS who do not blab , win on more than one technicality
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 18, 11:09 PM
    • 59,401 Posts
    • 72,548 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think you can see why PPC scammers don't like internet forums!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lounesbo
    • By Lounesbo 8th Jul 18, 11:38 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lounesbo
    Dear helpful team! the Popla appeal is due tomorrow for the alleged parking offence as detailed above and this is the draft. Please can the legal wording be checked/ clarified if folks dont mind. Cribbed as advised but do not want to slip up on a technicality. The template was found from 2015 and a difference alleged breach so could be a number of errors
    I really, really appreciate support/help and can understand people paying these fines as it is very stressful. Its all very technical/legal etc.
    Hope youre all enjoying the heatwave, football and tennis!

    Dear POPLA Adjudicator,

    RE: POPLA Code **********

    Vehicle Registration: *******
    PPC: Care parking
    PCN ref: ******
    Alleged Contravention Date: **/**/2018
    Date of notice: **/**/2018

    On **.**.2018 a ;Parking charge notice was issued for the sum of 100 charge for the alleged contravention of Obstructive parking;. The vehicle was parked on the edge of a marked bay for approximately 90 minutes in a car park where fees are not levied as this is a free parking space for the use of car park users to take the local metro-link service covering the Greater Manchester conurbation.

    I would like to appeal this notice on the following grounds.
    1) Not relevant land for registered keeper liability
    2) Charge not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
    3)No authority to levy charges
    4)Keeper is not liable for the charge as POFA does not apply
    5)Signage
    6)No Notice to Keeper

    1) Not relevant land for registered keeper liability

    I contend that this is not 'private land' as defined by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, therefore there is no keeper liability. It's Transport for greater Manchester land and is known to have Byelaws and the right to 'registered keeper liability' is simply not available on land covered by local Bylaws. Railway or Airport land is generally not 'relevant land' under the definition within the POFA. The keeper puts the Operator to strict proof to POPLA that this particular parking area is not covered by Statute or Byelaw and is 'relevant land' (as defined in Schedule 4 paragraph 3) because it is not 'relevant land' at all.

    2) Charge not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
    The demand for a payment of 100 is punitive, unreasonable, exceeds an appropriate amount, and has no relationship to the loss that would have been suffered by the Landowner. The keeper declares that the charge is punitive and therefore an unenforceable penalty.

    The BPA code of practice states:

    19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay
    is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge
    must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that
    you suffer.

    19.6 If your parking charge is based upon a contractually
    agreed sum, that charge cannot be punitive or
    unreasonable

    The keeper require Care parking to provide a detailed breakdown of how the amount of the 'charge' was arrived at. I am aware from court rulings and previous POPLA adjudications that the cost of running the business may not be included in these pre-estimate losses.


    3)No authority to levy charges.

    A parking management company will need to have the proper legal authorisation to contract with the consumer on the landowners behalf and enforce for breach of contract.
    The Operator must produce evidence to demonstrate that it is the land-owner; or, a contract or other evidence that it has the authority of the land-owner to issue charge notices at this location
    The Keeper believes there is no contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles the Operator to levy these charges and to pursue these 'charges' in their own name as creditor in the courts and, therefore, has no authority to issue charge notices.
    The keeper puts the Operator to strict proof to POPLA that they have the necessary legal authorisation at this location and I request that the Operator produce to POPLA the contemporaneous and unredacted contract between the landowner and the Operator.

    4)Keeper is not liable for the charge as POFA does not apply

    POFA 2012 does not apply, which means Registered Keeper liability does not apply
    I 1) This was not a parking incident as defined by the POFA 2012 which states:
    Quote:
    3) The operator may only pursue the driver
    4) The operator has offered no proof as to the identity of the driver

    I, therefore, respectfully request that my appeal is upheld


    5)Signage

    Prominent, clear signs are a strict requirement of the CoP and are especially important in an area where a driver will be leaving the car for a substantial amount of time without the need to pay. The fine is in large letters however the alleged obstruction is merely signposted in small-print' style.
    The keeper puts it to the Operator to demonstrate how their signage meets the BPA's regulations.

    As there was no contract entered in to I respectfully request that my appeal be upheld and the charge dismissed.


    6)No Notice to Keeper received.

    I, therefore, respectfully submit that my appeal by upheld and the charge dismissed.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Last edited by Lounesbo; 08-07-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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