Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 13th Apr 18, 2:07 PM
    • 1,366Posts
    • 1,765Thanks
    ThePants999
    CGT and tax return
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:07 PM
    CGT and tax return 13th Apr 18 at 2:07 PM
    Hi folks,

    This is a tax question and I didn't really know where to put it - I figure hopefully CGT questions come up often enough in this forum that it's a reasonable place

    Normally, all my earnings are PAYE, so I don't need to do a tax return. This year, I might have taxable capital gains. However, I've discovered that HMRC have a system whereby you can report a capital gain, and pay tax on it, immediately. (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-the-tax-you-owe-on-a-capital-gain-straight-away) So my question is: if I use that system, and have no other reason to need to file a tax return, do I still need to file one? Or does immediate payment effectively remove that capital gain from the list of reasons why you might need to file a return?

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 13th Apr 18, 2:36 PM
    • 1,126 Posts
    • 1,367 Thanks
    ProDave
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:36 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:36 PM
    Why pay immediately?

    If you have only just made the gain, file it on your 2018/19 tax return that you will receive in April 2019 and it won't be due for payment until January 2020
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 13th Apr 18, 2:44 PM
    • 1,366 Posts
    • 1,765 Thanks
    ThePants999
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:44 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:44 PM
    I'm not bothered about when I pay. Honestly, the only thing I care about is minimising hassle. If paying now means I can close the file on this and not have to do anything in future, that has significant value to me.

    Remember, I don't currently file a tax return. I never have, and I'd quite like to not start
    Last edited by ThePants999; 13-04-2018 at 2:47 PM.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 13th Apr 18, 3:39 PM
    • 8,311 Posts
    • 15,203 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:39 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:39 PM
    Remember, I don't currently file a tax return. I never have, and I'd quite like to not start
    Originally posted by ThePants999
    Yes, that's well understood

    But from the link you posted:
    "The deadline for paying is the next 31 January after the end of the tax year you made a gain in. For example, if you made a gain between 6 April 2016 and 5 April 2017 the deadline to pay the tax due will be 31 January 2018."

    So whether you're doing a full tax return or just notifying them through this online service, they really don't want or need the money until next Jan (or the following one if the gain was last Friday or later) so I generally work on the principle that the money's better in my bank than theirs...

    The risk of leaving it until Jan is of course that you forget and then create yourself a problem; so if you would prefer the piece of mind and give them the cashflow earlier, I'm sure the nation will be happy with you even if it's not the MSE thing to do!
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    • 1,366 Posts
    • 1,765 Thanks
    ThePants999
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    OK, sure. My question remains, though - if I use this online service, either now or at the last possible minute, does that absolve me of the need to file a tax return?
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 13th Apr 18, 4:57 PM
    • 3,216 Posts
    • 2,093 Thanks
    greenglide
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:57 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:57 PM
    Nothing completely absolves you from self assessment if HMRC decide you need to complete one.

    There is no obvious reason why a declared and paid for capital gain should automatically trigger a self assessment but it "might".

    Why are you so het up about it? It is a simple, logical online process. Mine takes about an hour or so, once a year.

    Not the end of the world.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 13th Apr 18, 5:51 PM
    • 8,311 Posts
    • 15,203 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:51 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:51 PM
    Why are you so het up about it? It is a simple, logical online process. Mine takes about an hour or so, once a year.

    Not the end of the world.
    Originally posted by greenglide
    It's true that it only takes an hour or so once you have all your information to hand, and you get used to doing them, and if you have things like bank interest and capital gains and personal pension or charity contributions that you want higher rate tax relief on, you're going to need to give HMRC some info anyway and might as well do it all at once. But still it's an hour of your life that you won't get back. My dad does one for him and mum each year and doesn't grumble as it makes sure he pays as little as possible and definitely claims what he can. But he is retired and can always find a spare hour in a week let alone a whole year. Other people have busier lives and don't love paperwork!

    But basically you only need to do a tax return if HMRC ask you to, or you have more complicated things going on than a few reliefs or a bit of CGT that you could just report online or tell them about in writing and have them adjust your paye code or collect a cheque from you. Like if you are renting out a house or running a small business etc, you need to do a return.
    OK, sure. My question remains, though - if I use this online service, either now or at the last possible minute, does that absolve me of the need to file a tax return?
    Originally posted by ThePants999
    If you were earning over 100k a year for example (causing you to start losing your personal allowance) then HMRC would write to you and tell you that you need to do a return. If they tell you that you need to do a return, you can't not do one (even if you'd prefer to do this online CGT report thing). Once you start doing them, you will generally get asked to do one every year unless you can convince them that your affairs are now simpler and you'd like to stop.

    However it sounds like in your case you have relatively simple affairs and you haven't been told to do a tax return. So, if you "use this online service, either now or at the last possible minute" then yes it does "absolve you of the need to file a tax return?" because there's no other need to do a tax return. Whereas, if you have been specifically told by HMRC that they want you to do a tax return, then the act of your doing the CGT bit online separately in real time as you go through the year doesn't absolve you of the need to do the tax return like they told you to.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 13-04-2018 at 5:58 PM.
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 13th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    • 1,366 Posts
    • 1,765 Thanks
    ThePants999
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    Great, thanks. So, as I understand it, you need to file a return if EITHER
    - you know you haven't paid the right amount of tax, or
    - HMRC tell you to.

    Hopefully neither will be true for me. Cheers!
    • capital0ne
    • By capital0ne 13th Apr 18, 6:54 PM
    • 573 Posts
    • 272 Thanks
    capital0ne
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:54 PM
    Why pay immediately?

    If you have only just made the gain, file it on your 2018/19 tax return that you will receive in April 2019 and it won't be due for payment until January 2020
    Originally posted by ProDave
    What part of "Normally, all my earnings are PAYE, so I don't need to do a tax return." didn't you understans?"
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 16th Apr 18, 11:22 AM
    • 3,120 Posts
    • 2,174 Thanks
    Tom99
    I am in the same position, my understanding is that once you have completed the online return you are then sent a tax bill, which presumably you can defer paying until January.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,108Posts Today

6,551Users online

Martin's Twitter