Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Concernedretiree
    • By Concernedretiree 13th Apr 18, 12:39 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Concernedretiree
    Lifetime or payoff mortgage
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:39 PM
    Lifetime or payoff mortgage 13th Apr 18 at 12:39 PM
    My husband retired last year at 68. He has substantial pension provision which he has not touched which is worth 3 times the equity we hold in our home. We are relying on our joint savings to live on. My only income is a small private pension worth only £20 per week. He is a deeply controlling man and has made it very difficult for me to work even though I had a good career when we met. He has now said he has no intention of paying off the mortgage and wants to get a lifetime mortgage of £150,000. The equity is about £250,000. We have 5 children; 2 each from previous marriages in their 40ís and one who is a post grad student. My deep fear is that if I predecease him he will change our mirrored wills and leave out my children from previous marriage or if he predecease me I will have a large debt I have no means to pay off if he leaves his pensions to his children.

    My question is - would it be better to get a lifetime mortgage and keep his investments intact or pay it off. We currently pay £220 per month and he is insisting investments will make more than that.
Page 1
    • kidmugsy
    • By kidmugsy 13th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
    • 10,348 Posts
    • 7,047 Thanks
    kidmugsy
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
    I suppose if you divorced him you would handed half the house and half his pension.

    I certainly think it rash to trust any spouse, even one of higher calibre than yours, to stick to a mirror will. Who knows what gold digger he might meet after your assumed first death?

    See a lawyer.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
    • WillowCat
    • By WillowCat 13th Apr 18, 4:08 PM
    • 788 Posts
    • 955 Thanks
    WillowCat
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:08 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:08 PM
    If the marriage is otherwise good, I'd be thinking of severing the joint tenancy on the house, and writing a new will that leaves your share to your children but giving him a life interest.

    If not, then divorce seems like quite a practical idea (sorry if this sounds harsh but I wish someone had said that to me when I let an unhappy marriage go on too long).

    Certainly the idea of getting a lifetime mortgage (which is a very expensive way to borrow) to try to make a return greater than the interest seems a very risky business.
  • jamesd
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:40 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:40 PM
    In purely financial terms it's likely that investments can be used in a pension that would grow by more than the interest cost of a lifetime mortgage. Don't know whether he is making such investments, though.

    Similarly, there's nothing wrong with planning to use a lifetime mortgage to increase spending power while alive, assuming that this is desired more than inheritance.

    So in purely financial terms this can be part of a sensible plan. I may well do it myself.

    Money inside a pension is not part of a person's estate and not distributed according to the person's will. Instead an expression of wishes form is submitted while alive to provide non-binding guidance to the pension trustees. Your mirror wills only affect non-pension money.

    Lifetime mortgages now have a no negative equity clause so while you'd have the debt with no expectation of paying it off, it wouldn't grow beyond the future value of the house and you could continue living there anyway.

    The neatest solution to distributing evenly to the children while they are still alive so you can see how it helps their lives. This would also deal with the inheritance split problem.

    In divorce you'd normally get half of all assets including half of his pension pot, home and mortgage. This is the route that is likely to best assure your inheritance objective.
    Last edited by jamesd; 13-04-2018 at 4:47 PM.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 13th Apr 18, 5:32 PM
    • 350 Posts
    • 199 Thanks
    Dox
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:32 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:32 PM
    If you divorce, you wouldn't necessarily be 'handed half the house and half his pension' - court orders in respect of pensions are relatively rare (other assets tend to be used instead because pensions can get very messy). You might get more, you might get less, depending on the view taken of your application for a financial settlement, assuming you make one.

    'Instead an expression of wishes form is submitted while alive to provide non-binding guidance to the pension trustees. Your mirror wills only affect non-pension money.' Depends on the type of pension. If it's a final salary scheme, the rules of the scheme will dictate what benefits are payable to survivors. If it's a personal pension, the pension provider makes the decision on who receives the money - which is almost invariably in line with whoever is on the nomination form.

    If you husband is as controlling as you say, he isn't likely to agree that the house is changed from what I presume is a joint tenancy to a 'tenants in common' basis - and you might not want that, especially if he dies first.

    I presume discussing this with him is a bit of a non-starter of you wouldn't have turned to strangers. I'm sorry there are no real words of reassurance and encouragement which can be offered, especially while you remain married to him.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 13th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Brynsam
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
    My question is - would it be better to get a lifetime mortgage and keep his investments intact or pay it off. We currently pay £220 per month and he is insisting investments will make more than that.
    Originally posted by Concernedretiree
    Are you actually going to get any say in the matter, given you describe him as 'controlling'? He isn't going to listen to you by the sound of things - and saying you've been on forum and people there think etc etc. Would you accept the possibility of taking professional advice (somehow I fear not).

    There are several confident assertions that you'd get half of everything if you divorce. That is a common misconception and if you are seriously considering calling it a day, see a solicitor and get some guidance on what might realistically happen.
    • Concernedretiree
    • By Concernedretiree 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Concernedretiree
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    We have been married for 36 years. Since we had our daughter 24 years ago, I have not paid into a pension as I was freelance and he said he was making provision for us both. The bombshell came last June when our IFA came round. I thought our joint savings of £110,000 was going to be used to pay off our mortgage. I had been so careful not to overspend so these savings mounted up. Then he and IFA agreed that this too, would be paid into his wrap ISA. I was so gobsmacked that the next day I froze the savings account which made him so angry I feared for my life. I have since had to agree to withdraw money for new kitchen and also a cruise which were past agreed expenditures so now only £70,000 remain. He says he earned the money, therefore it is all his and constantly threatens me to release it. So far I haven!!!8217;t caved in. I feel totally trapped. I have £20,000 of other savings but wouldn!!!8217;t get far for the rest of my life.
    • Concernedretiree
    • By Concernedretiree 13th Apr 18, 8:16 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Concernedretiree
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:16 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:16 PM
    He even sold my car registered in my name and bought one for our daughter as he said we didn!!!8217;t need 2 cars. I use ours when he doesn!!!8217;t need it. So stripped of another asset.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 13th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    • 781 Posts
    • 850 Thanks
    ProDave
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    Sorry but I would be leaving. I could not live under such control. I feel sorry for you.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 13th Apr 18, 8:46 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Brynsam
    This isn't about money, is it? Read your own posts and listen to yourself; you don't need 'advice' from anyone on this forum with comments like: 'I was so gobsmacked that the next day I froze the savings account which made him so angry I feared for my life' (unless you're a total drama queen and somehow I think not).
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 13th Apr 18, 10:18 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 372 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    If you will forgive me for my presumption....

    The tone and content of your posts make clear that the issue you face is more complex than simply the advisability of a lifetime mortgage.

    You don't give your age but, given the ages of your children, it would seem that you are in your 60s. After 36 years, you are perhaps reflecting on whether you wish to spend the rest of your life bound to your 'controlling' husband.

    Please take comfort that you do have options. You are not compelled to stay. Your husband may currently control your joint assets but they ARE your joint assets. He is not the sole owner and would be compelled by any English court to relinquish his custodianship of your share if you divorce.

    The starting point of any division would be 50/50 (including every penny of pension investments/income regardless of the name on the tag). After such a long marriage, and given that you are both now retired, deviation from an equal split would be unlikely unless there was something specific about your circumstances (prenup? recent inheritance? trust?) that may trigger ring-fencing in the interest of fairness.

    'Need' would be the most likely driver of any deviation in your circumstances as the court would try to ensure that both you and your husband had a home and adequate income. If your husband has pensions in payment then he will be required to split the income with you. His and your state pensions would also be taken into consideration.

    A lifetime mortgage may be a reasonable option for you as a couple but unless you are absolutely committed to your marriage as a lifelong union I wouldn't go there. It would add complication to a financial settlement.

    Only you know what is best for you but, regardless, I would recommend that you try and transfer more assets into your name. If you decide to divorce the period of most financial vulnerability for you will be the period from separation to completion of the settlement. You would need a short-term source of income, and money to pay a legal advisor as your husband doesn't sound like a 'mediation' type of guy. If you decide to stay then a financial buffer will be reassuring.

    Your husband would struggle to resist the logic of, for example, max-ing out your personal allowance (assuming he is a taxpayer and you are not). Also, the prospect of 'free' money available on any pension contributions you make into a SIPP (up to a max of £2880p.a. before age 75) may be a temptation beyond resistance.

    Apologies if I am way off the mark but if you are truly in fear of your life then your spouse is both emotionally and financially abusive.

    Good luck.
    • Concernedretiree
    • By Concernedretiree 13th Apr 18, 10:59 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Concernedretiree
    I truly 100% believed our joint savings were in place to pay off the mortgage as he had said so when account was originally set up many years ago. When he was 65 we had to leave our our previous property we had lived in for 25 years as he had made no provision to pay off actual loan. I was deeply reluctant to move. We moved 70 miles away to a place we had no links to which I hate. I had no say in this. PI should add that in 36 years of mortgages not once, has a payment ever been missed. Our credit rating is as good as it gets. Though I!!!8217;ve never had my own credit card or even my own motor insurance as he always said it would work out cheaper if I was co-credit card holder and motor insurance would be cheaper for same reason. He has no idea I have joined and posted on this forum.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 13th Apr 18, 11:19 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Brynsam
    I truly 100% believed our joint savings were in place to pay off the mortgage as he had said so when account was originally set up many years ago. When he was 65 we had to leave our our previous property we had lived in for 25 years as he had made no provision to pay off actual loan. I was deeply reluctant to move. We moved 70 miles away to a place we had no links to which I hate. I had no say in this. PI should add that in 36 years of mortgages not once, has a payment ever been missed. Our credit rating is as good as it gets. Though I!!!8217;ve never had my own credit card or even my own motor insurance as he always said it would work out cheaper if I was co-credit card holder and motor insurance would be cheaper for same reason. He has no idea I have joined and posted on this forum.
    Originally posted by Concernedretiree
    With the best will in the world, stop posting here and start acting - see a solicitor.
    • DancingBadger
    • By DancingBadger 13th Apr 18, 11:51 PM
    • 151 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    DancingBadger
    He has no idea I have joined and posted on this forum.
    Originally posted by Concernedretiree
    My husband has no idea what I do on the internet unless I choose to share something with him, and vice versa. From what you've written, I honestly don't think you realise your husband's unilateral control of your lives amounts to abuse. You have a right to privacy and your own opinions.

    Please consider getting help. Legal advice would be good, but I think you need to speak to a relationship counsellor to help you regain your sense of self-worth:
    https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk

    You sound isolated. Do you have any close female friends/family?
    • DairyQueen
    • By DairyQueen 14th Apr 18, 1:33 AM
    • 227 Posts
    • 372 Thanks
    DairyQueen
    Relate are also a possibility. Their counselling isn't just for couples and they are also able to provide practical advice, and will help you to gain some perspective on your situation.

    You are in need of support and advice but the financial issues you describe are a consequence of the dynamic that has existed for so long between you and your husband.

    Is the dynamic the problem? If so, then a counsellor and lawyer are the professionals you need now. If, on the other hand, the issue has been catalysed by a belated realisation that your husband has not provided the financial security you anticipated in retirement then an IFA would be your best bet. Ideally you would take financial advice as a couple but if your husband refused to join you seek advice alone. The advisor will be able to inform you of the options and recommend a way forward.
    • Concernedretiree
    • By Concernedretiree 14th Apr 18, 12:11 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Concernedretiree
    Thanks so much for the advice fellow members. I!!!8217;ve posted on a financial forum because I do not know whether it is better to pay off mortgage so we have no debt which is easily affordable or to get a lifetime mortgage which is what my husband wants. Of course, paying off mortgage would give me more control over our future which he most definitely would not want
    • BLB53
    • By BLB53 14th Apr 18, 12:23 PM
    • 1,244 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    BLB53
    Whether or not to pay off the mortgage is not the real issue here. In my opinion, you need to take back control of YOUR life. After many years with a controlling partner, it will seem like your self esteem is low and you have no power but in reality you have but possibly do not appreciate it.

    My advice would be to seriously think about a split, see a good solicitor about the prospects of what you could reasonably expect from a divorce, then make a decision.
    If you choose index funds you can never outperform the market.
    If you choose managed funds there's a high probability you will underperform index funds.
    • blues
    • By blues 14th Apr 18, 9:06 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 600 Thanks
    blues
    You are in an abusive relationship. Are you content living like this for the rest of your life? Consider all your options and stay safe. Partners who realise they are losing control in these situations can be unpredictable and even dangerous.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 14th Apr 18, 9:25 PM
    • 740 Posts
    • 466 Thanks
    Brynsam
    Thanks so much for the advice fellow members. I!!!8217;ve posted on a financial forum because I do not know whether it is better to pay off mortgage so we have no debt which is easily affordable or to get a lifetime mortgage which is what my husband wants. Of course, paying off mortgage would give me more control over our future which he most definitely would not want
    Originally posted by Concernedretiree
    According to your previous posts you don't have a choice. Tackle the real issue: your relationship with your. husband.
    • atush
    • By atush 16th Apr 18, 3:01 AM
    • 16,636 Posts
    • 10,336 Thanks
    atush
    Thanks so much for the advice fellow members. I!!!8217;ve posted on a financial forum because I do not know whether it is better to pay off mortgage so we have no debt which is easily affordable or to get a lifetime mortgage which is what my husband wants. Of course, paying off mortgage would give me more control over our future which he most definitely would not want
    Originally posted by Concernedretiree
    I would not agre to extend any borrowing at all. given his ideas for the money and his controlling behaviour.

    I agree with DQ, you need a solicitor PDQ and:

    I truly 100% believed our joint savings were in place to pay off the mortgage as he had said so when account was originally set up many years ago. When he was 65 we had to leave our our previous property we had lived in for 25 years as he had made no provision to pay off actual loan.
    This. He took out a mtg he cannot pay off due to negligance. Which resulted in a forced move. So should not borrow further.

    Honestly your best action would be to divorce him, take your half (and it will be half with a long marriage and children) and at least yoou can:

    Live where you want, leave your half to your children (not all to his) and have a say over what you do in your own life.

    If you dont want to go that far right now, at least see a solicitor to find our your rights and some practical advice in advance of any long term decision. Such as record keeping.

    What do yor adult children say? Will they support you? Emotionally at least?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,243Posts Today

4,220Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I've decided my weekend starts here while the sun's glow is still baskable. So I'm signing off. Have a great weeke? https://t.co/9FxNEpDs6p

  • No not correct. The big six do, but you can get fixed tariffs guaranteed not to rise and about 25% cheaper. Just tr? https://t.co/B2ft5OS3Ig

  • Baaaa! Scottish Power has bleated and followed the herd, today announcing it's putting up energy prices by 5.5%. R? https://t.co/vi3hBxo4Hn

  • Follow Martin