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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyfunkhouser
    • By Martyfunkhouser 12th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    • 4Posts
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    Martyfunkhouser
    Mis-Sold Shares
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    Mis-Sold Shares 12th Apr 18 at 2:12 PM
    Hi,

    About 18 years ago, a friend advised me to buy shares in a company called Telco. I didn't know anything about shares, so called Edward Jones.

    Once of their advisers came to see me and I told him I wanted to invest £5000 in Telco.

    He then said that Vodafone was a far better investment and he persuaded me to put all my money in Vodafone rather than Telco.

    The shares proceeded to fall and a few years later I sold them for half what I paid. I never dealt with Edward Jones again.

    I have just received a letter from Hallbrook a company claiming they can get me compensated if I was mis-sold shares.

    My Questions are, firstly do I have a valid claim, secondly is Hallbrook legit and finally what are my chances of reclaiming my loss.

    After all Edward Jones talked me out of what I wanted and into a poor investment?
Page 1
    • Paul_DNAP
    • By Paul_DNAP 12th Apr 18, 2:34 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    Paul_DNAP
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:34 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:34 PM
    Hallbrook seem to be a valid company, specialising in helping you fill out the standard FCSC claims forms and charging you handsomely for the privilege. (You could fill these out yourself, of course, you don't need to pay a claims management company, but their specialists supposedly help you identify you exactly which breach of the FSA conduct of business rules you're claiming for.)


    And on that point, which rule was broken? You were not sold anything, you took independent advice on a purchase you were making. And stock market advice always comes with the caveat of "past performance if no predictor of future gains" and as such you may not have a case. Also, it was your choice to sell them at a low and not wait out for them to recover etc. etc.


    Of interest, how would that money have done if you had invested in Telco instead?
    • george4064
    • By george4064 12th Apr 18, 2:37 PM
    • 1,056 Posts
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    george4064
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:37 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:37 PM
    Where is Telco now?
    "If you arenít willing to own a stock for ten years, donít even think about owning it for ten minutesĒ Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
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    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 12th Apr 18, 3:16 PM
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    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:16 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:16 PM

    He then said that Vodafone was a far better investment and he persuaded me to put all my money in Vodafone rather than Telco.
    Originally posted by Martyfunkhouser
    Was he right? Vodafone went on to be a massive global player worth £50 billion plus, and has paid a steady rising stream of dividends over the 18 years. How did your initial 'tip' of Telco - a company you didn't know anything about - do by comparison?

    Did Telco perhaps also lose half or more of its value in the dot-com crash 18 years ago? What happened to it? And even if Telco was a better end result it wasn't necessarily a dumb suggestion to buy Vodafone instead which seemed like a decent company with strong market position (if very expensive, back in '99/2000, just like other telecoms shares were).

    When you use a broker to buy shares you can do it with advice, or more cheaply, execution only without advice. If you go for the advised version you get access to their house recommendations which are opinions based on research, but not guarantees of performance over a specific time period. They are basically tips.
    The shares proceeded to fall and a few years later I sold them for half what I paid. I never dealt with Edward Jones again.
    Did they advise you to sell the shares? Or was it, as I suspect, that you lost money because you decided to sell your assets for less than you had paid for them instead of waiting for a turnaround in their performance.

    Even 18 years ago, pretty much everyone in the country had seen or heard the "small print" that investments can go down as well as up. It is the sort of thing people know off by heart, just like "your home may be at risk if you do not keep up your mortgage repayments". Even kids who don't have houses or investments have heard it. So if you pick an individual company to buy its shares, whether someone "advises" you that it might be a good idea, you can't have been unaware it may lose you money if you sell it at a price below what you paid.
    I have just received a letter from Hallbrook a company claiming they can get me compensated if I was mis-sold shares.
    Let me guess, it was a letter /cold call out of the blue. Either they will want administration fees to process a dubious claim which can only be filed if you give them accurate information; or you'll have to give them all your personal details for free and they will take a huge cut out of anything on the offchance it's successful.

    Like any ambulance-chasers, if you actually have all the details from the time, you could claim yourself, to the company that wronged you and then chance your arm with an ombudsman, and pay nothing to the ambulance chasers, keeping what's rightfully yours, all to yourself.

    However, if you tried to pursue it one obvious issue is - if they sold you something duff and you had a genuine complaint, why didn't you complain a decade and a half ago when you encountered the problem. Rather than waiting until the problem was so far in the past that it was totally unrealistic to get anything back and the company have archived any records relating to it.

    My Questions are, firstly do I have a valid claim,
    Doubt it
    secondly is Hallbrook legit
    Do they exist? Quite possibly

    Do they make money by scraping old shareholder lists of popular shares and giving them false hope that normal market losses can be recovered? That seems to be the case

    Should you give them all your personal data and pay them fees? No.

    and finally what are my chances of reclaiming my loss.
    It's nice to think you can, but really, the chance is nil.

    After all Edward Jones talked me out of what I wanted and into a poor investment?
    They talked and you listened to the common sense they were making, and were dissuaded from following your mate's tip. No crime there. If you had wanted to follow your mate's tip without knowing anything about shares, you still could have done.

    They couldn't guarantee the investment was the very best thing to buy. It was your choice to buy a share of a large and successful company and sell out at a low value when the market value for telecoms companies was lower.

    They offered advice and having received the advice you decided to follow it rather than reject it, which you could have done. Now because an ambulance chaser has come out of the blue and appears to be offering potential riches, you are tempted. Buy they did not come out of the blue with the aim of improving your lot in life. They came with the aim of improving theirs. And will spam hundreds or thousands of people on their 'potential mugs' list every day, hoping that in the end, some people will take them up on it and there will be some genuine claim opportunity among them.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 12th Apr 18, 3:17 PM
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    Malthusian
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:17 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:17 PM
    Wikipedia suggests there are only two companies called Telco and both were subsidiaries in 2000, meaning neither's shares were available for public investment.

    My first impression is that the Edward Jones rep did you a favour. At least you still have half your money left. If you had invested in "Telco", you would probably have lost all your money.

    What happened to your friend's investment? Which company was it actually in?

    At best, "Hallbrook" are wasting your time. Even if you had a valid complaint, it's time-barred.

    At worst, this is a scam, and they will ask you for money for "legal fees" or such like, which you will never see again.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    • 11,876 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    You were buying and selling right at dot com crash time. I would suspect that some little company like Telco, now part of a bigger one, would have similarly crashed certainly many of my shares did back then.

    Had you held Vodafone, what with their various shenanigans in the US market plus special dividends and take overs you'd have done OK.

    I think you'd be ona loser try8ng to complain yiu shoudk be compensated for the dot com crash.

    How did this company come to contact you?
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 12th Apr 18, 3:36 PM
    • 8,318 Posts
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:36 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:36 PM
    It's not about who advised you to buy.

    More who advised you to sell at the wrong time.
    • IanManc
    • By IanManc 12th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    • 737 Posts
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    IanManc
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    You can't realistically claim to have been mis-sold shares if you choose to sell them at a loss.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 12th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
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    LHW99
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
    One company named Telco became One-tel, and those who were getting email and phone services from One-tel then ended up with Talktalk.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    • 11,876 Posts
    • 13,851 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    One company named Telco became One-tel, and those who were getting email and phone services from One-tel then ended up with Talktalk.
    Originally posted by LHW99
    Ah, the one I found was a different one! A very generic name. Hard to track..
    • george4064
    • By george4064 12th Apr 18, 11:30 PM
    • 1,056 Posts
    • 1,101 Thanks
    george4064
    Maybe it was a miss type and he meant Tesco Plc?
    "If you arenít willing to own a stock for ten years, donít even think about owning it for ten minutesĒ Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
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    Save £12k in 2018 - #004 £5,529/£12,000 (46%)
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Apr 18, 11:37 PM
    • 96,105 Posts
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    dunstonh
    The shares proceeded to fall and a few years later I sold them for half what I paid. I never dealt with Edward Jones again.
    There is also the issue that shares are direct investments and not put in place under financial advice. Edward Jones were a salesforce selling packaged products. Not advice.

    My Questions are, firstly do I have a valid claim
    For the very good reasons given on the thread, no.

    Plus, the fact the Edward Jones rep may have engaged in chat with you about shares but they sold packaged retail products. You didnt buy those. All advisers have had people that engage in a chat but it doesn't become advice unless you buy the advice and get a report on the advice. Sometimes you have to humour people when they start going off-piste.

    Plus, even if it was a regulated product or even if the Edward Jones rep acted outside his remit, you are subject to the FCA's 3/6 year rule. You have to raise a complaint within 6 years of purchase or 3 years of being reasonably aware of an issue. Whichever is longer.

    18 years ago for purchase and 16 years for sale means both the 3 year rule and 6 year rule are satisfied.

    Edward Jones also closed down around 2010. It was sold to Towry Law. Unless you are referring to the unregulated Edward Jones that has an FCA warning about acting unlawfully in the UK.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 13th Apr 18, 7:31 AM
    • 97 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    if the company is happy to pursue this for you foc (if you lose the case), then yes, go ahead.
    if not, then no. leave it.
    Aim to retire by 45.
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 13th Apr 18, 7:32 AM
    • 97 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    most financial advisors are also employees. if they are so great, they would have set up their own companies or become full-time private investors. mostly do not invest in what they advise others to buy.

    why would they be pursuing a 9-5 job? you get what i mean?
    Aim to retire by 45.
    • Paul_DNAP
    • By Paul_DNAP 13th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    • 316 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    Paul_DNAP
    if the company is happy to pursue this for you foc (if you lose the case), then yes, go ahead.
    if not, then no. leave it.
    Originally posted by thenewcomer

    They appear to be a no-win no-fee brigade...


    We do not charge upfront fees. We only charge a success fee of 30% inc VAT if you receive compensation.
    • Wassa123
    • By Wassa123 13th Apr 18, 11:02 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 174 Thanks
    Wassa123
    Pretty sure most advisers make you sign some sort of waiver anyway.

    When I saw my mortgage adviser, I had to sign a "this is my decision to take on a mortgage" document.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th Apr 18, 12:16 PM
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    dunstonh
    Pretty sure most advisers make you sign some sort of waiver anyway.
    No. The FOS take no notice of those. Consumers cannot waive away their rights when are not in a position to know what they are waiving away.

    The only time disclaimers are used are execution only cases (confirming the case is execution only and the consequences) and insistent client cases (where the report says the advice is one thing but the person says they wish to override the advice).

    For normal advice events, no waiver/disclaimer is used.

    However, do remember that the OP is talking shares. Edward Jones operated a multi-tie product range using only packaged products. Not shares. So, advice never happened. At best it was a man-down-the-pub style chat. There was probably an initial meeting. The OP was talking shares rather than things within the remit of the Edward Jones rep (all advisers have had this) and the rep probably just humoured him until he could get out of the door.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 13th Apr 18, 1:34 PM
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    HappyHarry
    However, do remember that the OP is talking shares. Edward Jones operated a multi-tie product range using only packaged products. Not shares.
    Sorry to correct you dunstonh, but Edward Jones reps used to be able to advise on a multi-tied range of structured products and OEICs, and a limited range of UK and US shares, including Vodafone.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th Apr 18, 1:53 PM
    • 96,105 Posts
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    dunstonh
    Sorry to correct you dunstonh, but Edward Jones reps used to be able to advise on a multi-tied range of structured products and OEICs, and a limited range of UK and US shares, including Vodafone.
    Originally posted by HappyHarry
    I wasnt aware of that. How weird that a multi-tie would include shares. Was that on full advice basis or more a facilitation of what an individual may ask for? (i.e. would they do a FF and suit report for a share purchase)

    However, it is still well and truly past the point that allows timebarring.

    I took a quick peek at the FOS decisions to see if anything similar has gone before and there were only 4 ombudsman decisions regarding edward jones and one regarding shares.

    One of our adjudicators investigated Mrs Kís complaint and reached the conclusion that it
    should not be upheld. In summary, she said:
    <snip>
    The advice was only a recommendation of what Mrs K could do with her shares, she
    was not obliged or forced to follow it.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
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