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  • FIRST POST
    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 3:23 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Madness21
    Deposit paid on cat c car
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 3:23 AM
    Deposit paid on cat c car 12th Apr 18 at 3:23 AM
    Don't mind the time this is being posted, can't sleep, non related.

    So last Saturday I went to view a fiesta 1.25 style from an independent dealership. The car seemed nice, only really test drove for 5 minutes in an industrial estate after my dad drove around. I obviously liked it which is why I put down the deposit. The dealer even offered delivery, since it's my first car and there's a bypass between here and there and I'm not comfortable yet.

    There was obvious damage to the front and back bumpers; front bumper loose and held on with zip ties, and a dent in the back bumper. Another problem was the boot not opening due to the dent in the rear. It needed new brakes too, which were making a loud sound when coming to a stop.

    NOW, I would have walked away from this car, but the dealer said that everything would be sorted before it gets to me. I asked several times just to be crystal clear. The car will get a new front bumper, the back bumper will be sorted, brakes sorted, a wash, and a fresh 12 month MOT.

    I checked the MOT history, to see if it passed the MOT, but by God it failed massively. This set alarm bells ringing and I paid for a car history check, which I should have done in the first place. Turns out it was written off twice. 2015 and 2017 both cat C.

    What should I do?

    Car was advertised at 1795 I asked to work off of 1500 which was instantly accepted. Deposit was 200 cash.

    He'll accept Bank transfer for the remaining 1300 upon delivery, would that have some sort of protection? should I ask for a further reduction? Should I cut my losses and run?

    Picture of the MOT failure
    [IMG]imgur.com/a/JOxmu[/IMG]
Page 1
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 12th Apr 18, 6:29 AM
    • 611 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    angrycrow
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:29 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:29 AM
    I can't open your mot link due to you being a new user. Post up the reg and someone can get the mot history posted for you. You have not said the age of the car.

    Simple answer is the dealer should have declared the cat check status to you. The boot not opening shows the rear panel is distorted from the rear impact. The cost to repair this properly is more than you are paying for the car so dealer will clearly bodge it. It is likely the dealer will fit second hand front and rear bumpers, hammer the rear panel until the boot opens then hand it to you. The underlying structural damage front and rear will be hidden by these repairs.

    Pull out of this deal now and ask for your deposit back on the basis the dealer failed to disclose the cat c marker.
    • Ant555
    • By Ant555 12th Apr 18, 7:47 AM
    • 879 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    Ant555
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:47 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:47 AM
    If its a dealer then they are legally obliged to make you aware if its ever been a Cat C or D.

    I think if its a private sale then you have to ask and they cannot lie or misrepresent the status but you say it was a dealership so you have a case for your deposit back.

    Of course, it all depends on whether you want the car or not. Were you unable to open the boot due to the rear bumper being pushed up against it or was it more substantial.
    Last edited by Ant555; 12-04-2018 at 7:50 AM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 12th Apr 18, 8:05 AM
    • 19,726 Posts
    • 13,925 Thanks
    molerat
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:05 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:05 AM
    https://imgur.com/a/JOxmu
    Possibly part of a bodged front end repair.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • macman
    • By macman 12th Apr 18, 9:26 AM
    • 42,793 Posts
    • 18,040 Thanks
    macman
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:26 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:26 AM
    The dealer doesn't have to declare the MOT history, he just has to answer truthfully any questions you ask him.The time to check out the MOT history is before you agree to buy it. And you didn't check the V5C or service history either? If you now walk away, you'll probably (best case) lose your deposit. If the dealer has already spent money on the repairs, then he may seek to recover that too. No way of knowing. He's certainly not going to give you a further reduction after you agreed the deal.
    A Cat C write off simply means that the vehicle is not economically repairable at insurance rates. If properly repaired at trade rates, it is perfectly safe.
    Why, given the number of used Fiesta's on the market, did you buy one which visibly was in poor condition? At this bottom end of the market, you should be buying privately.
    Context: what is the year and mileage?
    Last edited by macman; 12-04-2018 at 9:32 AM.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 11:24 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Madness21
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 11:24 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 11:24 AM
    The plate is FP56 WUG with 68k miles.

    Thanks anyway guys, I was blind but now I see it's so obvious. I'm just gonna pull out of this deal.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Apr 18, 12:17 PM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 18,230 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:17 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:17 PM
    Even ignoring the CatC and MOT history, 1,500 for a shed of a 12yo Fester, off the back of a 5min once-around-the-block? The dealer must've thought it was his birthday...


    CatC simply means that the damage was more than the value at the time of the claim. For a low-value vehicle, that could be utterly trivial. I really wouldn't worry about that, just go by the apparent condition.
    • Ant555
    • By Ant555 12th Apr 18, 12:44 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    Ant555
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:44 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:44 PM
    The dealer doesn't have to declare the MOT history, he just has to answer truthfully any questions you ask him.
    Originally posted by macman
    I still think a dealer has to tell you before the sale if its a Cat C not just if you happen to ask or notice it on the log book.

    OP has decided to pull out now anyway but I think the failure to disclose might assist the safe return of the deposit.
    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 12:52 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Madness21
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:52 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:52 PM
    I'm guessing it must have been borderline Cat B/C. Everything seems good on the outside other than the bumpers, but the mot, like someone pointed out, looks like he tried to bodge it.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 12th Apr 18, 1:01 PM
    • 1,834 Posts
    • 700 Thanks
    sevenhills
    The plate is FP56 WUG with 68k miles.

    Thanks anyway guys, I was blind but now I see it's so obvious. I'm just gonna pull out of this deal.
    Originally posted by Madness21
    Prices on ebay range from 400-2,500, so its difficult to know whether or not its good value.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-1-25-2007-07-Style-LONG-MOT-LOW-MILEAGE-3-DOOR/142709304228?hash=item213a232ba4:g:HvkAAOSwWmNapUr 5

    The dealer could be ok? I would not want to lose 200

    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 1:07 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Madness21
    It's either lose 200 or lose 1500 I guess. Kinda getting worried. I want the car, but I'm a bit skeptical now. they offer 3 months warranty though.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Apr 18, 1:10 PM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 18,230 Thanks
    AdrianC
    There are plenty of other 1500 Fiesta-size cars out there. This one's a shed.


    A 3mo used-car warranty on a 1500 car will be borderline useless - so much will be excluded, and it probably has a very low claim limit. That's if it's a commercial warranty, rather than "I'll see you right, mate."
    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 1:59 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Madness21
    Thanks for the honesty. So should I pull straight out or see if the mot passes before considering
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 12th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    • 3,942 Posts
    • 2,985 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Walk away. For the price you've paid and the work it needs it isn't going to be done properly. The bodywork most certainly won't.

    There are plenty of Fiestas of the same age which haven't been written off at all, let alone twice. To get your deposit back you tell the dealer that you found out it has twice been written off and that the dealer didn't tell you which is illegal under consumer rights laws, specifically it is classed as a misleading omission under the 2006 Consumer Protection Regulations. Under those regulations a dealer HAS to inform you if it has been damaged and repaired, he can't just get out of that by only telling you if you ask, he has to tell you whether you ask or not. That is because it is considered to be information that would be very important in a buyer making a decision on whether to buy a car or not and that knowing it had you would be likely not to continue to buy it.
    Last edited by Tarambor; 12-04-2018 at 2:28 PM.
    • walwyn1978
    • By walwyn1978 12th Apr 18, 2:34 PM
    • 541 Posts
    • 521 Thanks
    walwyn1978
    It's either lose 200 or lose 1500 I guess. Kinda getting worried. I want the car, but I'm a bit skeptical now. they offer 3 months warranty though.
    Originally posted by Madness21
    Your 'warranty' will be so full of holes and exclusions its worth nothing. The car has had 2 Cat c markers on it and it's not a rare car. Pull out now. The MOT is irrelevant. To fix the car properly he'll need to spend more than his profit margin on the car, so it'll be bodged at best.
    • Muskey
    • By Muskey 12th Apr 18, 2:38 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Muskey
    According to https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk it has passed the MOT today, but has a history of brake problems going back to 2011. No wonder it is so damaged!

    I would not touch it and agree that a dealer is supposed to tell you it is a write-off before agreeing to the purchase.

    Price should be 500 when repaired properly due to poor history.
    Last edited by Muskey; 12-04-2018 at 2:43 PM. Reason: Pricing added.
    • facade
    • By facade 12th Apr 18, 3:15 PM
    • 3,605 Posts
    • 1,891 Thanks
    facade
    Prices on ebay range from 400-2,500, so its difficult to know whether or not its good value.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-1-25-2007-07-Style-LONG-MOT-LOW-MILEAGE-3-DOOR/142709304228?hash=item213a232ba4:g:HvkAAOSwWmNapUr 5
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    "LONG MOT TILL JULY 2018 THIS YEAR" Erm.... it is nearly May 2018 now......
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • Madness21
    • By Madness21 12th Apr 18, 3:16 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Madness21
    So what should I say if he refuses?
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 12th Apr 18, 3:43 PM
    • 952 Posts
    • 607 Thanks
    wgl2014
    Argue the toss as he failed to mention that the car was a write off.

    If he refuses then there are a few different options available, I would try to persuade him giving you a refund is the best option. Tactics could include suggesting you may have to report him to trading standards or hanging around his forecourt telling any other prospective buyers about your experience. Depends what your attitude towards a bit of conflict is!
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Apr 18, 3:50 PM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 18,230 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Under those regulations a dealer HAS to inform you if it has been damaged and repaired
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    While you're in the right direction, let's not get too enthusiastic. He has to tell you it's been recorded as a write-off. There is no way for anybody to know whether a non-recorded vehicle has ever been damaged and repaired - and it's estimated up to about a third of brand new cars have had bodywork repairs before delivery to rectify transport damage.
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