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  • FIRST POST
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 10th Apr 18, 6:31 PM
    • 293Posts
    • 225Thanks
    hybernia
    *Editing 8mm cine film compilation*
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:31 PM
    *Editing 8mm cine film compilation* 10th Apr 18 at 6:31 PM
    A relative who died a couple of years ago was our extended family's resident Cine Film Guy. He shot lots of cine over the years. His widow has sorted out the boxes according to their titles and sent them off to a firm which has converted them and put them on a DVD.

    The problem is that the result contains a lot of stuff which doesn't mean anything. It needs editing out. I borrowed the DVD and did what I've learned to do to make a back-up. I have returned the DVD to his widow.

    What I would like to do is edit the backup. It comprises a single VIDEO TS folder containing 11 files: 7 x VTS_VOB files; 2 x VTS_IFO files; 1 x VTS_BUP file; and 1 x Video_ TS.BUP file.

    The creation of a single VIDEO_TS folder, with all the files in it, has always been the best way for me to burn a back-up. But I wonder, now, if I've gone the right way about it?

    My problem is, I cannot think of a way to actually 'play' this folder on screen (as distinct from burning it) so as to be able to see which bits should be cut, and which bits should be kept.

    Just to make it clear: I do NOT have the original DVD now.

    Only the VIDEO_TS folder.

    Should I now burn that folder to create a backup DVD, and then insert that DVD into my desktop PC to see if it might be recognised by an editing program that would allow me to go through the separate frames and delete as required?

    If so: is there a (fairly basic!) editing program anyone can recommend? Or is there some other way of doing this??? Thank you for any help!
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 10th Apr 18, 6:57 PM
    • 3,428 Posts
    • 2,391 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:57 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:57 PM
    I think you will need the raw video in order to edit it. What you have is the "compiled" video ready to play in a DVD player. I could be wrong but when I edited my Granddaughters' Christening videos, I had to get the raw footage from the videographer (person who took the video).
    • that
    • By that 10th Apr 18, 7:13 PM
    • 775 Posts
    • 423 Thanks
    that
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:13 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:13 PM
    To play, only play, you can drag the files onto VLC



    Note: at a push vlc can convert videos to .jpg or .png, so each frame could be a .jpg. it is also possible to combine all the .jpg files (frames) together to make a film.


    However I am sure someone will be along telling of a good bit of software, if not look here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/328476-Editing-H264-MPEG-4-AVC-ts-files
    • bob_a_builder
    • By bob_a_builder 10th Apr 18, 7:28 PM
    • 1,634 Posts
    • 794 Thanks
    bob_a_builder
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:28 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:28 PM
    Download / install Handbrake ...

    https://handbrake.fr/

    When it comes up with source selection, point it at your folder
    Then set the destination folder and output file type
    That should give you one continuous MP4 file or similar - or if not at least a number of separate .MP4 files which you can edit and join

    Which you can then set about editing with one of the many free video editors
    Last edited by bob_a_builder; 10-04-2018 at 7:34 PM.
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 10th Apr 18, 8:02 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 225 Thanks
    hybernia
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:02 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:02 PM
    Thanks everyone.

    I've a feeling that what I've done wrong is to take my usual backup routine to create a single VTS folder that can then be burned to disk. Unfortunately, that folder contains (as mentioned) a lot of different files. What I need is one file to work on. Not 11.

    Seems to me, though I could be wrong, that I need to start over and (a) burn the backup to a DVD, thus returning me to the position I was in to begin with; (2) see if I can somehow change the output settings of the backup to a single file rather than a bunch of them. I'm going to try out bob a builder's proposal first though.

    What's needed, or so it seems to me, is a single file, not a folder of separate files, with that single file playable and therefore editable on my PC.

    Thanks again, all.

    PS: Bob: I've downloaded Handbrake and, right this minute,. it's re-encoding that VTS folder as an MP4 file. . . hopefully! Thanks again for your insight.
    Last edited by hybernia; 10-04-2018 at 8:10 PM. Reason: update
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 10th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    • 254 Posts
    • 249 Thanks
    stragglebod
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:34 PM
    Why are you re-encoding? It'll take ages and reduce the quality.

    VOB files are essentially mpeg2 video files. Look for ones that are .99 GB with a smaller one at the end; those are the actual video files.

    The other smaller VOBs will be menus which you don't need, and you don't need any of the others.

    Most free video editors can cope with VOBs, if they can't you can probably con them into working with them by renaming them as .mpg.
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 10th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 225 Thanks
    hybernia
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:44 PM
    Why are you re-encoding? It'll take ages and reduce the quality.VOB files are essentially mpeg2 video files. Lo ok for ones that are .99 GB with a smaller one at the end; those are the actual video files.

    The other smaller VOBs will be menus which you don't need, and you don't need any of the others.Most free video editors can cope with VOBs, if they can't you can probably con them into working with them by renaming them as .mpg.
    Originally posted by stragglebod
    Yes, you're right. stragglebod. Handbrake is still working on the folder. I hadn't realised, there'd be a quality loss (you can see, I'm not skilled in any of this . . .)

    Amongst the collection of files in the VTS folder, there appear to be 4 which are identical: VTS_01_1.VOB, and then 3 more (02.VOB, 03.VOB, 04.VOB.) All four files are the same size: 1,084,404KB.

    Do I need to (somehow) work with all fouor?? Or is it the case that there are three duplicates here of the actual VOB I need?

    Sorry to be so thick about this. . .
    • ChuckMountain
    • By ChuckMountain 10th Apr 18, 9:37 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    ChuckMountain
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:37 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:37 PM
    That was the max size for a VOB from memory.

    If you played them in a DVD player it would normally play them based on a playlist. This would typically play 1 to 4 VOB in order with no gap between them.

    If you download VLC player you can play them individually or at once depending on how you open them.
    • PhylPho
    • By PhylPho 11th Apr 18, 8:18 PM
    • 1,325 Posts
    • 2,858 Thanks
    PhylPho
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:18 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:18 PM
    OP: you'd be much, much better starting afresh. You have the VTS folder, so use something like Ashampoo's free version of Burning Studio to burn it to DVD. It'll take no more than 10 minutes.

    Then, when you have the DVD, pop it in your computer and rip it to a single VOB file. By default, Wonderfox's ripper does just that: a single VOB, not a VTS folder. You're just going to waste your time, messing around with any other approaches when, as you say, all you want is something you can edit on-screen: playing the thing isn't important to you; editing is.
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 11th Apr 18, 9:12 PM
    • 254 Posts
    • 249 Thanks
    stragglebod
    OP: you'd be much, much better starting afresh. You have the VTS folder, so use something like Ashampoo's free version of Burning Studio to burn it to DVD. It'll take no more than 10 minutes.

    Then, when you have the DVD, pop it in your computer and rip it to a single VOB file. By default, Wonderfox's ripper does just that: a single VOB, not a VTS folder. You're just going to waste your time, messing around with any other approaches when, as you say, all you want is something you can edit on-screen: playing the thing isn't important to you; editing is.
    Originally posted by PhylPho
    Seems like pretty cruddy software if the only way you can join VOBs is to burn back to DVD and rip again.
    • jamesperrett
    • By jamesperrett 12th Apr 18, 1:08 AM
    • 837 Posts
    • 472 Thanks
    jamesperrett
    Yes, you're right. stragglebod. Handbrake is still working on the folder. I hadn't realised, there'd be a quality loss (you can see, I'm not skilled in any of this . . .)
    Originally posted by hybernia
    Stick with Handbrake - it can convert the separate .vob files into a single file (I had to do the same thing recently). If you are going to be editing the files choose the best quality settings - possibly lossless if you have plenty of disc space.
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 12th Apr 18, 7:06 PM
    • 254 Posts
    • 249 Thanks
    stragglebod
    Some of the 'advice' on this thread is frankly ridiculous.

    Someone even suggests pointlessly re-encoding a video (which remember, is already compressed into mpeg) in some mysterious 'lossless' format. Perhaps they mean jpeg 2000, which would mean taking going from about 1GB/hour source to about 30GB/hour with no improvement in quality.

    YOU DO NOT NEED TO RE-ENCODE.

    There are tools which will merge VOBs without re-encoding. There are tools which will cut edit VOBs without re-encoding. There are tools which will strip out the VOB-ness of VOBs into mpegs without re-encoding. There are tools which will do all three steps without re-encoding.

    Personally I use Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD for this stuff, because I got it for a good discount years ago, but there were free tools which do what you need then and I'm certain there still are.

    Not sure what the current recommendation for free options is these days, have a look at the lists on the Videohelp forums. Vobmerge, Mpeg Streamclip and AviDemux used to be good ones.
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 14th Apr 18, 12:21 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 225 Thanks
    hybernia
    I just wanted to thank everyone who has spared the time here to offer help and advice. I also wanted to provide an update for anyone who might be interested, because over the years on MSE I've often wondered about the outcome or progress of a poster's query but never been told about it. Frustrating!

    The situation with my cine situation is that I've taken the advice to use Handbrake and yes, I've converted the VTS folder's contents into a single MP4 file.

    The VTS folder's content amounted to 4.12GB.

    The MP4 file size amounted to 1.24GB.

    The file plays fine on my iPad, so it's been good to review it, sitting in an armchair rather than at the computer screen. But the Super 8 cine source material was not of the best though, so generally appears a bit dark. I note the size difference between the original and the conversion, and am assuming some quality loss may well have occurred.

    Next: stragglebod's helpful insights into matters VOB (the word seemed daunting when I started in on this, but now I've read up on the topic, I understand a lot more) led me to the nice freeware Vobmerge. Sadly, although it merged the vobs OK, playback in both VLC and MPC-HC failed. The merged VOB stuck after 12 minutes run time and was blank thereafter.

    As I'm using Windows 7, I wondered if there might be an incompatability issue with Vobmerge so looked for a more recently developed app. I found something called: JoinVob Files Tools. It seems not to have been progressed since the days of Vista but it ran perfectly on my Windows 7 computer. More to the point:

    JoinVob File Tools flawlessly merged the seven vobs together from the VTS folder. And unlike Vobmerge, I didn't have to pick out the vob files; the app identified the ones it wanted as soon as I browsed to the folder.

    So now I have a single 4.12GB VOB file. Progress!

    The only video editing program I own (but have never yet used) is VSDC Pro. (I paid a nominal sum to upgrade from VSDC Free.) So. . . would VSDC actually open that VOB file? Answer: yes. It did. No problems at all.

    Today, then, I'm wading through YouTube video tutorials to get to grips with the basics of VSDC editing. (If there's a less complicated editor for a numpty like me, information would be appreciated . . . )

    The biggest challenge I now face, or so it seems to me, is how to strip the audio track from the VOB.

    The commercial firm who did the original conversion of the cine files into a single DVD kindly provided what they must've thought was some nice Muzak as a soundtrack. Unfortunately, it's pretty awful, and I know when I start cutting and joining I'm going to have audio that's all over the place. I'd rather have my own choice of music as a replacement.

    Anyway. That's my update. Hope I haven't bored anyone with this! Thanks again to all who have helped.
    • that
    • By that 14th Apr 18, 2:17 PM
    • 775 Posts
    • 423 Thanks
    that
    When it comes to audio, have you seen this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CCYDnJSpr8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PiN9Zgt_Kg


    also using google suggest than handbreak can also delete audio as mentioned here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/352643-Handbrake-audio-questions
    Last edited by that; 14-04-2018 at 2:22 PM.
    • hybernia
    • By hybernia 14th Apr 18, 4:10 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 225 Thanks
    hybernia
    When it comes to audio, have you seen this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CCYDnJSpr8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PiN9Zgt_Kg

    also using google suggest than handbreak can also delete audio as mentioned here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/352643-Handbrake-audio-questions
    Originally posted by that
    Sincere thanks for the heads-up. I've now downloaded both the YouTube videos you kindly linked to and put them on my tablet. The link to the Handbrake forum is also very useful with its tip about deleting any audio from the audio set up section so that Handbrake won't process it.

    Thank you again!
    • rhysadams
    • By rhysadams 16th Apr 18, 11:25 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    rhysadams
    Handbrake is absolutely brilliant for encoding videos into different formats. But also try VLC as that can play most video files.
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