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  • FIRST POST
    • Aerofox176
    • By Aerofox176 10th Apr 18, 1:07 PM
    • 3Posts
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    Aerofox176
    Building Survey Ownership
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:07 PM
    Building Survey Ownership 10th Apr 18 at 1:07 PM
    Hello. My first post on MSE forums. Brief situation is we were in a chain of 4, six weeks in and buyer at the bottom pulled out unethically and collapsed the whole chain. We had just had undertaken a full RICS building survey at 660 on a dream cottage we are now not going to own. I would like some advice please. This cottage was 200 years old plus, and whoever does buy it will undertake a full building survey (which came out saying all excellent for the record). I want to contact the vendor's estate agent and offer to sell our building survey to the new buyer, as the survey will only be a matter of a few weeks old and perfectly useful. I was going to offer it for say 400 to try and recoup at least a bit of our lost 1000 costs in total. Can you transfer ownership of a building survey in this way? Any help appreciated as a very difficult time. Thank you.
Page 1
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 10th Apr 18, 1:12 PM
    • 965 Posts
    • 585 Thanks
    dunroving
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:12 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:12 PM
    Hello. My first post on MSE forums. Brief situation is we were in a chain of 4, six weeks in and buyer at the bottom pulled out unethically and collapsed the whole chain. We had just had undertaken a full RICS building survey at 660 on a dream cottage we are now not going to own. I would like some advice please. This cottage was 200 years old plus, and whoever does buy it will undertake a full building survey (which came out saying all excellent for the record). I want to contact the vendor's estate agent and offer to sell our building survey to the new buyer, as the survey will only be a matter of a few weeks old and perfectly useful. I was going to offer it for say 400 to try and recoup at least a bit of our lost 1000 costs in total. Can you transfer ownership of a building survey in this way? Any help appreciated as a very difficult time. Thank you.
    Originally posted by Aerofox176
    That clearly won't work because it is way too sensible an idea. The English housing market doesn't work that way.

    But yes, hopefully you could do that, but I can imagine the seller not wanting to touch the idea in case he/she is then deemed to be liable in some way if the survey turns out to be incorrect.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Apr 18, 1:37 PM
    • 6,117 Posts
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    eddddy
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:37 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:37 PM
    You need to check your contract with the surveyor.

    It almost certainly says that it is for your use only, and cannot be resold. (So selling it would put you in breach of contract with the surveyor.)

    Also... it is not as valuable to other people as it would have been to you.

    For example, if the surveyor failed to notice that the roof is falling down, and you bought the property - you have a contract with the surveyor, so you could sue them for negligence.

    If somebody else buys the property (using the survey you sell them), they have no contract with the surveyor - so cannot sue the surveyor for negligence.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 10th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • 2,429 Posts
    • 1,267 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    The surveyor holds the copyright to their survey and they grant you permission to use it, you cannot resell their intellectual property.
    • lena_halo
    • By lena_halo 10th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    lena_halo
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    Is there no way you can proceed with the purchase at all? What a horrible situation, I really feel for you
    • Aerofox176
    • By Aerofox176 10th Apr 18, 2:03 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aerofox176
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:03 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:03 PM
    Thanks for that
    • Aerofox176
    • By Aerofox176 10th Apr 18, 2:05 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Aerofox176
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:05 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 2:05 PM
    Thanks, but unlikely. The vendor has kindly given us 10 days grace before she goes back to market, but we're unlikely to get another offer so soon. Best laid plans and all that stuff.
    • loveka
    • By loveka 10th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • 383 Posts
    • 358 Thanks
    loveka
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    The system stinks, it really does.

    We have had this happen to us 3 times in 18 months.

    We have offered to sell the survey on. There is always a reason that the new vendors don't want/need it. According to the estate agent...

    There were 2 surveys done on our house. Again, the estate agent didn't want them passed on.

    It is not in any of their interests to reuse surveys, as they don't get any more money! One of the properties we were buying I know they had the same company of surveyors to do an identical survey 6 months later!

    I really think it's a racket.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • 17,176 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    You would be selling them some sheets of paper with writing on. That writing might or might not be of interest and useful to them.

    You would not be selling them the most important bits - comeback against the surveyor in case it's wrong, and a valuation that's actually relevant to their lender.

    So anything over a smallish fraction of the price would be excessive.

    B'sides, it's of no use whatsoever to you - so why not just do the decent thing and hand it over? Karma is circular...


    BTW - you say the buyer at the end of the chain pulled out "unethically". You know this for a fact? Right up until exchange of contracts, they have every right to pull out for whatever reason, however genuine. Nobody does things like that lightly.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Apr 18, 6:32 PM
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    Smodlet
    All true but, what with all the caveats at the end of surveys, one does wonder how much "comeback" there ever really is in practice.

    Hang in there, OP. Who knows, you might find another buyer quickly. If your EA is of any use ( I know, right?) they will be contacting everyone who expressed interest but lost out on buying your house last time. Your vendor might not find another buyer until you have another nibble... Chin up!

    AdrianC is quite right; until exchange anyone can pull out at any time; your opinion of their actions is immaterial... And one day, it might be you who has to do that. Will you be "unethical" or in an unavoidable situation?

    Seriously, where is the empathy these days? We all know how frustrating the idiotic house buying/selling system is in England and Wales. Until there is a change in the law, we are stuck with it. A little bit of grace, perhaps; it will make you look good to vendors and buyers alike.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 7:05 PM
    • 17,176 Posts
    • 15,483 Thanks
    AdrianC
    We all know how frustrating the idiotic house buying/selling system is in England and Wales. Until there is a change in the law, we are stuck with it.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    There always has to be an end to the ability to walk away - a point at which you are contractually obliged to buy.


    Who wants that to be the offer point? Not me, because it means that you need to do all your due diligence before finding out that the vendor's in cloud-cuckoo land when it comes to offers.



    Who wants to accept the vendor's information at face value, without any opportunity to check it out for yourself? Not me, because we're always saying to new-build buyers "Don't take the vendor's recommended solicitor - they're the only person fighting your side.".
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Apr 18, 8:08 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 5,907 Thanks
    Smodlet
    There always has to be an end to the ability to walk away - a point at which you are contractually obliged to buy.


    Who wants that to be the offer point? Not me, because it means that you need to do all your due diligence before finding out that the vendor's in cloud-cuckoo land when it comes to offers.



    Who wants to accept the vendor's information at face value, without any opportunity to check it out for yourself? Not me, because we're always saying to new-build buyers "Don't take the vendor's recommended solicitor - they're the only person fighting your side.".
    Originally posted by AdrianC


    No-one wants the scenario you suggest, AdrianC, certainly not me. I just feel there has to be a better way and think I am not alone in this.

    The Scottish way is different from ours though hardly without its problems either, such as vendors forking out for a Home Report when they might not achieve a sale, I guess (how long are those valid for?) Still seems better for everyone except the surveyor(s) than getting the same survey done on the same property over and over within a few months.

    Perhaps forcing solicitors to do their jobs properly within a reasonable time and EAs to adhere to the truth would be a start! Yeah, yeah, cue Disney logo.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 9:56 PM
    • 17,176 Posts
    • 15,483 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The Scottish way is different from ours though hardly without its problems either, such as vendors forking out for a Home Report when they might not achieve a sale, I guess (how long are those valid for?)
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    And the buyer is in that second position I described, where they're relying on vendor-provided information...


    Still seems better for everyone except the surveyor(s) than getting the same survey done on the same property over and over within a few months.
    How often does that actually happen?


    Perhaps forcing solicitors to do their jobs properly within a reasonable time and EAs to adhere to the truth would be a start! Yeah, yeah, cue Disney logo.
    There are incompetents, sure. But much of the legals delay is usually waiting for searches etc to come back, and EAs can only pass on what they're told by the vendor.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Apr 18, 10:07 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
    • 5,907 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Please don't defend EA's... Can't you see the horns and the tails?
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 10:14 PM
    • 17,176 Posts
    • 15,483 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Please don't defend EA's...
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    EAs are people, too...

    (mostly)



    Can't you see the horns and the tails?
    <chuckle>
    • Finchy2018
    • By Finchy2018 10th Apr 18, 10:19 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Finchy2018
    I worked for a surveyors for 5 years. You can sell the survey. However the surveyor would not be liable for anything missed - for all We know the owner could have knocked down a wall since the survey took place.
    • ukdw
    • By ukdw 11th Apr 18, 6:57 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    ukdw
    Unless surveyors are making excessive profits due to many of their good surveys having to be repeated due to chain problems then I suspect that even an improved house buying process wouldnt reduce the overall cost of surveys.
    i.e. Are lucky buyers who get though the process in a smooth way with only one survey in effect being subsidised by the unlucky buyers who end up having to pay for multiple surveys with only the last one actually having any liability for the surveyor attached to it.

    I suppose the survey costs would be fairer if surveyors offered an option to split the payment for the survey into two - the first payment for the actual survey and a second payment for the surveyors liability/buyers protection that only gets charged if the house move goes ahead.

    The advantages of taking this business model would be that in theory it should work out cheaper overall for the unlucky people who end up having to get multiple surveys done. The disadvantage would be that the overall cost for buyers requiring only one survey would be greater.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 11th Apr 18, 9:54 AM
    • 2,551 Posts
    • 3,642 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Thanks, but unlikely. The vendor has kindly given us 10 days grace before she goes back to market, but we're unlikely to get another offer so soon. Best laid plans and all that stuff.
    Originally posted by Aerofox176
    You don't know you won't get another offer if you don't remarket. Similarly, your vendor might not get another offer as quickly as she hopes - a point which you might like to make to her (or her agents).

    If this is the "dream cottage" you say it is, I'd be pulling out all the stops to get it - you seem to have thrown the towel in at the first setback....
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