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  • FIRST POST
    • erxema
    • By erxema 9th Apr 18, 11:18 PM
    • 7Posts
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    erxema
    Lead Tenant not returning deposit
    • #1
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:18 PM
    Lead Tenant not returning deposit 9th Apr 18 at 11:18 PM
    Good evening everyone,

    it is my first post, please be gentle, I have been a long time reader, and just decided to join as we have been made aware that our deposit (tenancy ended 15th Feb) was returned after deductions were made (and agree by the four tenants) as per the lead tenant request to the account we have used as joint one ( one of us got a new account under her name ) and we used it as an account to pay rent and bills. Need to remark that this account is not under the name of the lead tenant.

    Today, after contacting our agency and asking about our deposit, we have been made aware that our deposit was refunded almost a month ago, and that the lead and other tenant not only have failed to let us know but are also ignoring our texts asking for it.

    Between my friend and I, the claim goes up to 1145 pounds (apologies for the lack of pound sign, writing from a spanish keyboard).

    We have emails from the agency asking us to confirm the refund to such account, we have the emails from today where the agency acknowledges that the deposit has been returned to the lead tenant. We have obviously the tenancy agreement with our names on it, we have bank statement from that account used to pay bills and rent and transfers paid into/to by each tenant...

    We have asked the agency for the forwarding address the lead tenant provided and a confirmation of the total amount that was refunded. Now, my question is... as from what I have been able to read and gather information today, it is the legal responsibility of the lead tenant to make sure that our share of the deposit is returned to us, what is the procedure now?

    We don't want to be involved in any court claims, solicitors, etc... and we prefer to resolve this amicably and move on with our lives, but as per their non-response, we are afraid that might not be the case.

    Any suggestions?

    Many thanks to everyone reading this and sharing their views.
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    • 45,319 Posts
    • 54,317 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    We don't want to be involved in any court claims, solicitors, etc... and we prefer to resolve this amicably and move on with our lives, but as per their non-response, we are afraid that might not be the case.

    Any suggestions?
    Originally posted by erxema
    Assuming you can find their current address - a chat over tea and cake.

    Obviously, if the amicable approach does not work, then it's either the small claaims court or write it off.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Apr 18, 12:08 AM
    • 8,499 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:08 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:08 AM
    Do you have the lead tenant's new address?
    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 12:34 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    erxema
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:34 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:34 AM
    Assuming you can find their current address - a chat over tea and cake.

    Obviously, if the amicable approach does not work, then it's either the small claaims court or write it off.
    Originally posted by G_M
    We don't want to write it off as this is something beyond our expectations. With no explanation they are keeping more than 1000 pounds that are ours. For me, that is a serious offence.

    What would the procedure for a small claims? would we need to get legal representation?

    Do you have the lead tenant's new address?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    we have asked the agency for it as we are thinking of taking legal actions. It has come to a ridiculous point, as we are all in group chat, we are all "friends" in facebook, we know where they work...

    we do not want to be the typical: we are going to take you to court! - kind of people, but we are willing to if necessary. they are stealing from us more than 1000 pounds with no reason.
    Last edited by erxema; 10-04-2018 at 12:39 AM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Apr 18, 1:30 AM
    • 39,027 Posts
    • 35,908 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:30 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:30 AM
    I'm sorry if you've answered this already but I've missed it if you have: have you ASKED them for it? You know, either in a FB message, or a text message, or an email, or - gosh, radical I know - a phone call? To their workplace if necessary.
    Still knitting!
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    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 1:35 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    erxema
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:35 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:35 AM
    I'm sorry if you've answered this already but I've missed it if you have: have you ASKED them for it? You know, either in a FB message, or a text message, or an email, or - gosh, radical I know - a phone call? To their workplace if necessary.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    hi, thanks for your response, we texted them on thursday asking about the status of the deposit. At that point we didn't know that it had been already refunded. No response from them, completely ignored.

    Today, after the agency confirmed the deposit had been refunded almost a month ago, we texted them again, attaching a screenshot of the agency confirmation.

    All these texts were sent to a group chat we all are part of in whatsapp. It is ridiculous the reaction, and their attitude of not caring at all, thinking they can get away with this with all the proof in terms of email, texts, transfer...

    at what point do we stop treating people like adults? we have shared accommodation and rented two different properties in the last 2 years, going through this process before. Someone would assume that after telling them: we know your are holding our deposit, please give us our share, they would act like proper adult.
    Last edited by erxema; 10-04-2018 at 1:39 AM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Apr 18, 4:31 AM
    • 45,319 Posts
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 4:31 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 4:31 AM
    Oh good grief!

    Stop texting and talk to them!

    (and by 'talk' I don't mean on social media)
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 10th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • 340 Posts
    • 607 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    hi, thanks for your response, we texted them on thursday asking about the status of the deposit. At that point we didn't know that it had been already refunded. No response from them, completely ignored.

    Today, after the agency confirmed the deposit had been refunded almost a month ago, we texted them again, attaching a screenshot of the agency confirmation.

    All these texts were sent to a group chat we all are part of in whatsapp. It is ridiculous the reaction, and their attitude of not caring at all, thinking they can get away with this with all the proof in terms of email, texts, transfer...

    at what point do we stop treating people like adults? we have shared accommodation and rented two different properties in the last 2 years, going through this process before. Someone would assume that after telling them: we know your are holding our deposit, please give us our share, they would act like proper adult.
    Originally posted by erxema
    Maybe if you acted like a "proper adult" and spoke to them about it rather than texting like a teenager you may get an adult repsonse.
    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 9:35 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    erxema
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:35 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:35 AM
    Oh good grief!

    Stop texting and talk to them!

    (and by 'talk' I don't mean on social media)
    Originally posted by G_M
    Good morning, I appreciate your concern but as you can imagine we have tried this (apologies if not mentioned before). We also wanted to have something that actually proves we have tried to communicate with them, and in whatsapp you can see when they have read the texts.

    I would not be this desperate if I hadnt tried everything in my hand. They both live in London, we know where they work ( nursery with children) and we would like to complicate their livelihood by leaving a mark on their DBS if it happens to be that way.

    Like I said, we have proof of that account being used for bills and rent and previous deposit.

    What it is driving us crazy, is the total avoidance of communications with us, knowing that we share a chat group. we have been copied in all correspondence from the agency and that this could bring legal repercussions to them.

    I would just like to know what would be the next step, as today we should be getting their forwarding address and confirmation of the total amount refunded.

    Many thanks in advance,
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 10th Apr 18, 9:49 AM
    • 6,791 Posts
    • 8,889 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    I would suggest that you try one last time to speak to them, in person or by phone. In that conversation, remind that that the money has been refunded, that 572.50 of it belongs to you and the same amount to your friend, and that it needs to be returned immediately. Ask them what is causing the delay and make clear that you expect the money to be in your accounts within (say) 3 days, failing which you will have no alternative but to start a formal claim to recover it.

    If they don't respond, or refuse to return the money, then send a formal letter before action and then start a money claim online. You don't need legal representation but do need to read the instructions carefully and ensure that you follow them fully.

    You say that you had a joint account for bills and that it was not in the name of the lead tenant. Whose name was it in? Has that person checked the statements to identify when the payment went in? Has the money been withdrawn? I think the person you need to be contacting is the person whose name is on that account, not the lead tenant, as it is that person who has access to the funds.
    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 9:49 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    erxema
    Maybe if you acted like a "proper adult" and spoke to them about it rather than texting like a teenager you may get an adult repsonse.
    Originally posted by bigisi
    I am opened to new suggestions on how to deal with this like an adult.

    Many thanks,
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 10th Apr 18, 9:55 AM
    • 1,427 Posts
    • 1,039 Thanks
    saajan_12
    You're making this more complicated than needed. A message is easier to ignore, a phone call will tell you if they're being lazy or maliciously trying to steal it. Phone them, asking
    a) Have they received the deposit from the agency
    b) When they will return your share and how much

    Then confirm this in an email/text ("as discussed you will return x by yy/04/2018").

    If they don't send it by that date then worry about addresses and court.
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 10th Apr 18, 10:07 AM
    • 1,304 Posts
    • 904 Thanks
    dunroving
    Mayb even talk with them in person? The closer you get to normal human interaction, the easier it will be to gauge whether they are (a) lazy and embarrassed, (b) disorganised and disinterested, (c) deliberately deceitful, etc.

    Depending on which of these applies, an appropriate follow-up approach might be more obvious.

    I'm afraid that in this age of "social media" interaction, it's far too easy to "ignore" someone. You can't ignore someone when they are standing in front of you.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 10th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    • 4,129 Posts
    • 14,039 Thanks
    Out, Vile Jelly
    So you only texted them last Thursday? They could be on holiday, have a new number, be ill, any number of reasons.

    If you know their address, then communicate formally in writing from now on. Keep the letters polite, neutral and succinct. If you do go to court, this will be your evidence, so make sure it's professional.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • ashe
    • By ashe 10th Apr 18, 10:48 AM
    • 548 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    ashe
    Have they both read the messages?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Apr 18, 10:50 AM
    • 12,907 Posts
    • 18,557 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Good morning, I appreciate your concern but as you can imagine we have tried this (apologies if not mentioned before). We also wanted to have something that actually proves we have tried to communicate with them, and in whatsapp you can see when they have read the texts.

    I would not be this desperate if I hadnt tried everything in my hand. They both live in London, we know where they work ( nursery with children) and we would like to complicate their livelihood by leaving a mark on their DBS if it happens to be that way.

    Like I said, we have proof of that account being used for bills and rent and previous deposit.

    What it is driving us crazy, is the total avoidance of communications with us, knowing that we share a chat group. we have been copied in all correspondence from the agency and that this could bring legal repercussions to them.

    I would just like to know what would be the next step, as today we should be getting their forwarding address and confirmation of the total amount refunded.

    Many thanks in advance,
    Originally posted by erxema
    When you say you've tried everything does that mean you have sent a letter? Not a text, not a Whatapp message, not a Tweet but an actual letter written on paper with ink and sent through the post? That's what a court will want to see.

    I am confused. First you say you want to sort this amicably and don't want to go to court. Now you're talking about trying to impact the lead tenant's livelihood by leaving a mark on their DBS check.

    The return of your deposit is a civil matter and it would be dealt with in small claims court which is a civil court. DBS checks search criminal records not civil disputes so your dream of ruining the lead tenant's livliehood through this sadly won't come true.
    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 11:20 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    erxema
    Mayb even talk with them in person? The closer you get to normal human interaction, the easier it will be to gauge whether they are (a) lazy and embarrassed, (b) disorganised and disinterested, (c) deliberately deceitful, etc.

    Depending on which of these applies, an appropriate follow-up approach might be more obvious.

    I'm afraid that in this age of "social media" interaction, it's far too easy to "ignore" someone. You can't ignore someone when they are standing in front of you.
    Originally posted by dunroving
    HI, many thanks for your response, a friend of ours has advised us against this, as it could look as an intimidatory attitude towards them .

    We are going to call them again today, follow up with an email.


    You're making this more complicated than needed. A message is easier to ignore, a phone call will tell you if they're being lazy or maliciously trying to steal it. Phone them, asking
    a) Have they received the deposit from the agency
    b) When they will return your share and how much

    Then confirm this in an email/text ("as discussed you will return x by yy/04/2018").

    If they don't send it by that date then worry about addresses and court.
    Originally posted by saajan_12
    We are going to phone them today and follow up with an email. As i said, less than two months ago we were living together, and now we just have gone our separate ways.


    I would suggest that you try one last time to speak to them, in person or by phone. In that conversation, remind that that the money has been refunded, that 572.50 of it belongs to you and the same amount to your friend, and that it needs to be returned immediately. Ask them what is causing the delay and make clear that you expect the money to be in your accounts within (say) 3 days, failing which you will have no alternative but to start a formal claim to recover it.

    If they don't respond, or refuse to return the money, then send a formal letter before action and then start a money claim online. You don't need legal representation but do need to read the instructions carefully and ensure that you follow them fully.

    You say that you had a joint account for bills and that it was not in the name of the lead tenant. Whose name was it in? Has that person checked the statements to identify when the payment went in? Has the money been withdrawn? I think the person you need to be contacting is the person whose name is on that account, not the lead tenant, as it is that person who has access to the funds.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    HI, many thanks for your response.

    WE have got confirmation today from the agency about the total amount transferred and we have worked out our part of the deposit, 1,127.05 .

    The agency has told us that they are going to contact them by email and phone to let them know about the possible repercussions to both them, as one is the lead tenant and the other is the account holder.

    A friend of us have told us to avoid turning up at their workplace or their place, as this may look like an intimidatory attitude towards them. we don't know how accurate this advise is.

    AS per everyone advise here, we are going to call them again today, the lead tenant and the other tenant who is the account holder ( but we have all used the account to make payments) and try to get our money amicably.

    I am a bit lost about the process if they decide not to return the funds....a formal letter before action, this does not have to come from a solicitor and could just come from us?

    Could give me more details about this money claim online? i thought this was something to go to the small claims court.

    thanks very much,

    Have they both read the messages?
    Originally posted by ashe
    Hi, yes, they both ( and the boyfriendo, also in the group) have read the texts, and were copied on our last communication with the agency when confirming that the money had been transferred.

    When you say you've tried everything does that mean you have sent a letter? Not a text, not a Whatapp message, not a Tweet but an actual letter written on paper with ink and sent through the post? That's what a court will want to see.

    I am confused. First you say you want to sort this amicably and don't want to go to court. Now you're talking about trying to impact the lead tenant's livelihood by leaving a mark on their DBS check.

    The return of your deposit is a civil matter and it would be dealt with in small claims court which is a civil court. DBS checks search criminal records not civil disputes so your dream of ruining the lead tenant's livliehood through this sadly won't come true.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    HI, thanks for your response.

    In no way, shape or form, my dream is ruing someone's livelihood. Apologies if this has been misunderstood. I was only referring to the chances of a possible mark on their DBS if that mark impacted their record. Not that I want to leave a mark or ruin their careers. That was me speaking from ignorance.

    Is good to know that there are still ways to solve this. And no, we have not sent a letter to them , like I said, this is my first time dealing with this kind of issue and we are learning as we go.

    When you say a letter in the post, should we make copies of this? have it delivered with proof of delivery?

    thank you,
    Last edited by erxema; 10-04-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 10th Apr 18, 11:28 AM
    • 1,304 Posts
    • 904 Thanks
    dunroving
    HI, many thanks for your response, a friend of ours has advised us against this, as it could look as an intimidatory attitude towards them .

    <<snip>>

    We are going to phone them today and follow up with an email. As i said, less than two months ago we were living together, and now we just have gone our separate ways.

    <<snip>>
    A friend of us have told us to avoid turning up at their workplace or their place, as this may look like an intimidatory attitude towards them. we don't know how accurate this advise is.

    <<snip>>,
    Originally posted by erxema
    Whether an in person meeting is "intimidatory" depends on the context and on you. You lived with these people for two years (?) so presumably you know them pretty well (?)

    If you send a message suggesting you meet them after work to discuss the deposit refund over a coffee, is that "intimidatory"? Doesn't seem so to me. Maybe the snowflake generation does exist.

    You could say that being passive-aggressive by not responding to your messages and not giving you your money is "intimidatory". Such intimidation tends to evaporate when people have to look each other in the eyes.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • erxema
    • By erxema 10th Apr 18, 11:46 AM
    • 7 Posts
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    erxema
    Whether an in person meeting is "intimidatory" depends on the context and on you. You lived with these people for two years (?) so presumably you know them pretty well (?)

    If you send a message suggesting you meet them after work to discuss the deposit refund over a coffee, is that "intimidatory"? Doesn't seem so to me. Maybe the snowflake generation does exist.

    You could say that being passive-aggressive by not responding to your messages and not giving you your money is "intimidatory". Such intimidation tends to evaporate when people have to look each other in the eyes.
    Originally posted by dunroving
    Thanks for your comment,

    Our main issue, is that as they are ignoring our calls and texts, so the chances of arranging a chat are close to none, without us turning up unannounced at their job.

    I completely agree with your point of "intimidatory attitude" but we just don't know how to proceed here. We basically want our money back and move on. We don't want to get involved in letters, claims, etc...
    Last edited by erxema; 10-04-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Apr 18, 11:53 AM
    • 45,319 Posts
    • 54,317 Thanks
    G_M
    OK - so you make the call and try to resove amicably as per your very first post.

    If this fails, the process is:

    * obtain their current address
    * send a "Letter Before Action" detailing what they owe you and why (very briefly!) and giving them 7 days to repay you before you take legal action.
    * log on to Moneycalim Online, create an account, and make a claim - you do not need a solicitor. You can, of course, use one but would be very unlikely to be able to reclaim the cost even if you win
    * chances are they'll then pay - make sure they also pay the moneyclaim online fees as well
    * if they don't, they'll either ignore, in which case you'll win by default, or they enter a defense.
    * if it gets as far as court, the matter will be heard by a judge in a small side-room, informally. Solicitors are generally not present.
    Last edited by G_M; 10-04-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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