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  • FIRST POST
    • venison
    • By venison 9th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    • 1,927Posts
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    venison
    A simple request to all.
    • #1
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    A simple request to all. 9th Apr 18 at 8:39 PM
    If I may beg your indulgence for a moment, it is important when answering threads/giving advice that it is done so with some knowledge or a reference to where you have seen the advice.

    We seem to be having a problem where people, (lets be generous) are giving poor or misinformed advice and for some seeking answers this can cause problems.
    Remember it is often better to say nothing than to say something that is wrong.

    There are a number of very well informed people who daily give advice to others, it would be a great shame if others were driven away by ill informed or lets be honest trolls.

    Thank you, and remember if you see a post that you think shouldn't be there use the "report" button.

    Venison.
    I am a BG on loans,credit cards and benefits I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly". Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
Page 1
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 9th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    • 1,503 Posts
    • 3,161 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:56 PM
    I agree with all you've said, and thank you for doing your best to remedy the ongoing situation on here.

    I don't agree with locking threads though when it stops the (genuine) OP coming back to update or ask for more advice. Yes they can start a new thread, but they shouldn't have to, and they may feel reluctant to do so if they think the same may happen again (their thread getting disrupted and/ or it being locked again).

    The real issue here is the forum team not acting to stop the troll, despite numerous reports from genuine posters. I can't understand it, and I doubt others can either.

    Definitely not a dig at you venison. I expect you're as frustrated as the rest of us.
    Last edited by venison; 09-04-2018 at 9:39 PM.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 9th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    • 1,549 Posts
    • 2,036 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    I agree with all you've said, and thank you for doing your best to remedy the ongoing situation on here.

    The real issue here is the forum team not acting to stop the troll, despite numerous reports from genuine posters. I can't understand it, and I doubt others can either.

    Definitely not a dig at you venison. I expect you're as frustrated as the rest of us.
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    100% agree
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 9th Apr 18, 9:17 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
    • 2,383 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:17 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:17 PM
    If I may beg your indulgence for a moment, it is important when answering threads/giving advice that it is done so with some knowledge or a reference to where you have seen the advice.

    We seem to be having a problem where people, (lets be generous) are giving poor or misinformed advice and for some seeking answers this can cause problems.
    Remember it is often better to say nothing than to say something that is wrong.

    There are a number of very well informed people who daily give advice to others, it would be a great shame if others were driven away by ill informed or lets be honest trolls.

    Thank you, and remember if you see a post that you think shouldn't be there use the "report" button.

    Venison.
    Originally posted by venison
    I also agree with everything you've said and i thank you for what you do.

    However, the troll has constantly been reported by many people yet they are still posting on the forum and causing disruption day in, day out. Posts from regular genuine posters who regularly give advice are being deleted left right and centre, yet the troll is still allowed to post.

    I agree also that it's not your fault but those that are able to do something about it are choosing to ignore it. I will never understand it... we will start to lose those that give great regular advice if this isn't stopped.
    • venison
    • By venison 9th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • 1,927 Posts
    • 2,059 Thanks
    venison
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    I agree with all you've said, and thank you for doing your best to remedy the ongoing situation on here.

    I don't agree with locking threads though when it stops the (genuine) OP coming back to update or ask for more advice. Yes they can start a new thread, but they shouldn't have to, and they may feel reluctant to do so if they think the same may happen again (their thread getting disrupted and/ or it being locked again).

    The real issue here is the forum team not acting to stop the troll, despite numerous reports from genuine posters. I can't understand it, and I doubt others can either.

    Definitely not a dig at you venison. I expect you're as frustrated as the rest of us.
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    Locking threads is and I hope always will be a last resort.
    And you are correct it has been a frustrating couple of weeks on here, but you might be surprised at how fast it could go back to "service as usual".
    I am a BG on loans,credit cards and benefits I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly". Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 10th Apr 18, 5:05 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    bspm1
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 5:05 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 5:05 PM
    Locking threads is and I hope always will be a last resort.
    And you are correct it has been a frustrating couple of weeks on here, but you might be surprised at how fast it could go back to "service as usual".
    Originally posted by venison
    Maybe he could deny that the children are his? He was paying on the basis that he thought they were now he is not too sure.

    That's how my stepson got out of paying for his two children. Mum didn't want to go down the DNA route so lost out - this was 15 years ago.
    Originally posted by Danday

    Oh really?
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 10th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    bspm1
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    I have been spending time going through all of the relevant questions and answers on here and came across a reply from someone called alice holt.
    She mentions as do others that if you get a benefit for a disability you can get somebody to claim carers allowance for helping out.
    Does this allowance apply to husband and wife if they live together?
    How do you prove what the help is and more importantly the number of hours if you live with then day and night?
    I've looked on the CAB website and it says that the help cannot contradict the reason you claim the disability benefits for.
    I would have thought that living together like this would automatically raise questions by the DWP. Then end up with the disability benefit being disputed. How do you solve that problem?
    Originally posted by Danday
    If you want to work it out, go onto the Turn2us website and enter enhanced for both components of PIP and highest AA award. Put that we each claim CA for each other but don't receive any money and then look at the answer.
    Originally posted by Danday
    Just thought I would pop all the contradictory posts from posters who are being dealt with swiftly Venison.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 10th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • 516 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    John-K
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    Locking threads is and I hope always will be a last resort.
    And you are correct it has been a frustrating couple of weeks on here, but you might be surprised at how fast it could go back to "service as usual".
    Originally posted by venison
    The moderation is truly appalling on this site nowadays. Trolls are given free rein, yet factual, polite responses telling people, for example, not to commit fraud, are taken down.

    There is apparently a policy of not modding posts encouraging illegal activity, but posts suggesting that people don!!!8217;t will disappear while the ones suggesting criminality will remain.
    • venison
    • By venison 10th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • 1,927 Posts
    • 2,059 Thanks
    venison
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    ^If you spot a post that you consider breaks the rules then please press the report button.

    MSE does not have moderators only board guides who are here to try and make things run smoothly, I'll admit its been an uphill struggle very recently but we have limited powers.

    Personally I have been in touch with the powers that be and I'm hoping as I have already said that it will be business as usual ASAP.
    I am a BG on loans,credit cards and benefits I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly". Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 10th Apr 18, 10:27 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    bspm1
    ^If you spot a post that you consider breaks the rules then please press the report button.

    MSE does not have moderators only board guides who are here to try and make things run smoothly, I'll admit its been an uphill struggle very recently but we have limited powers.

    Personally I have been in touch with the powers that be and I'm hoping as I have already said that it will be business as usual ASAP.
    Originally posted by venison
    I can only speak for myself when I say I HAVE reported many posts by a particular poster that I believe are only posted to cause trouble and give wrong advice.

    Haven't seen any of them disappear, I have noticed many well written posts go though. Posts that question the aforementioned posters lies.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 10th Apr 18, 11:26 PM
    • 516 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    John-K
    I can only speak for myself when I say I HAVE reported many posts by a particular poster that I believe are only posted to cause trouble and give wrong advice.

    Haven't seen any of them disappear, I have noticed many well written posts go though. Posts that question the aforementioned posters lies.
    Originally posted by bspm1
    The strange claim that there is no moderation is clearly not true. Posts are removed, threads are locked, and as you say, it is often the factual posts deleted and the troll comments that remain.

    Itís strange. I was explicitly told when ai complained a while back that demonstrably untrue posts were fine, as it was not the moderatorsí job to arbitrate.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Apr 18, 11:38 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
    • 2,383 Thanks
    poppy12345
    I can only speak for myself when I say I HAVE reported many posts by a particular poster that I believe are only posted to cause trouble and give wrong advice.

    Haven't seen any of them disappear, I have noticed many well written posts go though. Posts that question the aforementioned posters lies.
    Originally posted by bspm1
    I have also reported more posts from a certain member then i can remember. These posts remain but why?

    All of this is just ridiculous because of one persistent poster and their many accounts that's causing all the trouble here. I have never seen so many lies and contradictions from one person.

    More than 24 hours ago we were told it would be back to normal ASAP, yet today we're told the exact same thing
    • huckster
    • By huckster 10th Apr 18, 11:50 PM
    • 3,105 Posts
    • 1,315 Thanks
    huckster
    This problem is not unique to MSE and is something you have to live with. Moderators or board guides can only do their best. Report any issues, rather than get into arguments on the threads.

    If a poster is regularly making posts that MSE deem unhelpful, then MSE will no doubt consider whether to act or not. My experience is that if you ban or restrict a poster, they often just add a different user name and start making posts under a new name. You will never stop them that way. Board guides probably best to just PM any poster and delete individual posts where felt necessary.

    I can't see the point in arguing about moderators or what are troll posts etc. The only thing that is important, is the public receiving help, which they have not found elsewhere. This can be a frustrating exercise and some posts will be more helpful than others. But that is just the way it is and will never change.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 10th Apr 18, 11:54 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
    • 2,383 Thanks
    poppy12345
    This problem is not unique to MSE and is something you have to live with. Moderators or board guides can only do their best. Report any issues, rather than get into arguments on the threads.

    If a poster is regularly making posts that MSE deem unhelpful, then MSE will no doubt consider whether to act or not. My experience is that if you ban or restrict a poster, they often just add a different user name and start making posts under a new name. You will never stop them that way. Board guides probably best to just PM any poster and delete individual posts where felt necessary.

    I can't see the point in arguing about moderators or what are troll posts etc. The only thing that is important, is the public receiving help, which they have not found elsewhere. This can be a frustrating exercise and some posts will be more helpful than others. But that is just the way it is and will never change.
    Originally posted by huckster
    When the troll is constantly given incorrect advise i can't see how that possibly helps those that need it.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 10th Apr 18, 11:57 PM
    • 516 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    John-K
    [QUOTE=huckster;74143717]
    I can't see the point in arguing about moderators or what are troll posts etc./QUOTE]
    And yet here you are, doing exactly that.

    Valid, polite, correct posts are being deleted, reams of troll posts remain, and it seems to be happening with an agenda behind it. Why would anyone remove a post pointing out, with quotes, when a troll has been caught out in a set of lies, yet leave in the posts that have been shown not only to be untrue, but to be misleading people who are here for help?
    • huckster
    • By huckster 11th Apr 18, 12:07 AM
    • 3,105 Posts
    • 1,315 Thanks
    huckster
    Because MSE board monitors don't want argument posts between members.

    You can add a post to correct advice offered by another poster, as well as report posts, without making it personal.

    Trolls are never defeated if you make them feel important. They seek attention and try to make it difficult to ignore them. As soon as you show signs of frustration, they love it and will keep trying to annoy.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Apr 18, 12:38 AM
    • 1,549 Posts
    • 2,036 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Because MSE board monitors don't want argument posts between members.

    You can add a post to correct advice offered by another poster, as well as report posts, without making it personal.

    Trolls are never defeated if you make them feel important. They seek attention and try to make it difficult to ignore them. As soon as you show signs of frustration, they love it and will keep trying to annoy.
    Originally posted by huckster
    Of course you can correct the advice by a poster. However, that still leaves the OP, who may well have alighted here a) in a distressed and worried state and b) attracted by the name and reputation of Martin Lewis to decide which piece of advice to follow. Posting links helps but, also, pointing out the inconsistencies in the troll posts adds extra evidence to try to get them going in the right direction.

    This troll has been banned before - it is possible. I moderate elsewhere and I understand the difficulties and am fully aware that trolls like the oxygen of attention. But many of us have been following the advice of MSE and reporting posts for some time now - with no discernible impact other than perfectly good posts being deleted and very good and knowledgable posters being warned. The frustration comes from the inaction and, it would appear, couldn't care less attitude emanating from MSE Towers.

    Personally, I don't think MSE can get away with the 'we don't moderate" argument. As said they ban posters, delete and edit posts and are quite happy to start threads. In addition - and I feel strongly about this - people come here, at least partly, because of Martin Lewis (I know he doesn't own the site any more but his name is prominent). I think it is very sad that a forum bearing his name is so open to incorrect advice and trolling - particularly on boards like benefits and disability where many posters are very vulnerable and come here at a bad time in their life.
    Last edited by NeilCr; 11-04-2018 at 6:08 AM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Apr 18, 8:18 AM
    • 4,811 Posts
    • 5,130 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    There is a valid argument that it's easier to monitor a nuisance poster than to try to ban them. It's so easy to create a new ID and start all over again. I do agree that there seems to be an inability to remove some problem posts but no such inability to remove others which, whilst possibly being provocative at times, are providing useful and accurate information.
    I have seen one user, and all their posts, disappear after I and probably others reported them for abusing anybody they didn't agree with.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Apr 18, 8:37 AM
    • 1,549 Posts
    • 2,036 Thanks
    NeilCr
    There is a valid argument that it's easier to monitor a nuisance poster than to try to ban them. It's so easy to create a new ID and start all over again. I do agree that there seems to be an inability to remove some problem posts but no such inability to remove others which, whilst possibly being provocative at times, are providing useful and accurate information.
    I have seen one user, and all their posts, disappear after I and probably others reported them for abusing anybody they didn't agree with.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    There is such a valid argument. I've done it myself as a moderator

    But that requires that, while monitoring such a poster, you deal with the incorrect etc posts that they are making. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 11th Apr 18, 9:30 AM
    • 1,503 Posts
    • 3,161 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    This problem is not unique to MSE and is something you have to live with. Moderators or board guides can only do their best. Report any issues, rather than get into arguments on the threads.

    If a poster is regularly making posts that MSE deem unhelpful, then MSE will no doubt consider whether to act or not. My experience is that if you ban or restrict a poster, they often just add a different user name and start making posts under a new name. You will never stop them that way. Board guides probably best to just PM any poster and delete individual posts where felt necessary.

    I can't see the point in arguing about moderators or what are troll posts etc. The only thing that is important, is the public receiving help, which they have not found elsewhere. This can be a frustrating exercise and some posts will be more helpful than others. But that is just the way it is and will never change.
    Originally posted by huckster
    There are busier forums, without the resources of MSE, that manage to deal with trolls far more effectively. But that means the forum team actively engaging with forum members, which simply doesn't happen here. I can't say I've ever had a reply asking for more information about a report, although others may have had replies?

    Also, where there is uncertainty, the forum team can ask the alleged troll for more information to back up their claims. Yes it takes a bit more work, but it also takes more effort from the troll, and when you do this they tend to then drift away. If they then return under a different guise then you ask the question again, they get 24 hours and if they don't reply then they're banned until they do.
    Last edited by BorisThomson; 11-04-2018 at 9:32 AM.
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