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  • FIRST POST
    • efunc
    • By efunc 5th Apr 18, 3:10 PM
    • 386Posts
    • 32Thanks
    efunc
    Car Seller Is Not The Owner
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 18, 3:10 PM
    Car Seller Is Not The Owner 5th Apr 18 at 3:10 PM
    OK, here's one. Went to see a local car advertised privately (on ebay). When I went to see it the seller explained that it's not his car, it's his friend's/business partner's who is in hospital with cancer, and he's selling it on his behalf. The seller has the keys and V5, etc, but they're not in his name, they're in the name of the owner.

    Now, irrespective of whether or not I believe the story (there are a number of holes in it), how does one go ahead with a sale like this. At the very least I imagine I would need to see the owner's ID/driving license/passport etc to verify he exists and is still in touch? Is there any value in getting a signed receipt/letter from the Owner agreeing to the sale? Presumably this could be written by anyone, so not much use.

    The seller did say that he can register the car in his name prior to sale if I feel more secure that way, but since it's only had one one 2 registered keepers, bumping it up another one would devalue the car a bit, so I'm looking into all options and legal positions here.

    Any advice welcome. Auction ends tomorrow however. Thanks.
Page 3
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 6th Apr 18, 12:05 PM
    • 5,044 Posts
    • 20,237 Thanks
    Merlin139
    If you dig about with his phone number and look at previous sales you can find another E-bay account with previous sales that revert back to the account he is using for the Audi TT.

    07717778882 brings up a Mercedes-Benz C Class 2.1 C220 CDI SE Coupe which was sold by the same E-bay account.

    On the original number look at the BMW 1 SERIES 123D M SPORT COUPE Black Manual Diesel and have a look at the back story.

    So its a bit obvious that he is running a business.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 6th Apr 18, 1:37 PM
    • 6,035 Posts
    • 2,744 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Also him saying that he's just found out that you can update the V5 on the Government DVLA site is more likely a lie, judging by the amount of cars he has sold he probably already knows this.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 6th Apr 18, 1:47 PM
    • 12,746 Posts
    • 11,432 Thanks
    jimjames
    I looked at the service book, and it had the first 5 stamps from the same Audi dealership in the south, which look legitimate, and then the remaining 5 from some independent in Scotland. That does point to 2 owners. Of course I can call Audi and receive the full service history they have on record and verify if they saw it for those first 6 years.
    Originally posted by efunc
    Why "points to 2 owners"? Surely if you've looked at the car you've checked the V5 for owner list? Contact the last one to ask about the car
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • efunc
    • By efunc 6th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    Yes, I agree, complacency. I was trying to fathom the amount of holes in the story and how easy it is for anyone to see through them, thinking there must be some master plan, but there really isnít! Heís just plain stupid and this is a sale thatís bound to collapse.

    I mean, heís selling this on eBay after all, but he hasnít disclosed any of the relevant details in the description! Bidders will be bidding high assuming it is exactly as itís described. But when they turn up heíll tell them itís not even his car, and thereís 2 previous owners, not one, and potentially him as well, making it 3. And then they will see all the scuffs and scrapes, on car heís described as flawless. Who on earth would actually end up paying the final bid price, or anything at all, when they take in the full picture? Just seems madness. Surely better for him to just register it to himself and actually sell it on with no strings attached? The car itself seems a good drive for the money and likely problem-free. I assume it was picked up at a car auction. He would have paid at least £8k for it, if itís not CAT D or CAT CÖ
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 6th Apr 18, 2:23 PM
    • 7,870 Posts
    • 7,242 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Lots of buyers don't check, or will accept the selling for a friend story. He's not trying to deceive someone looking into it, just someone who doesn't care.

    Local dealer to me claims that for most of his sales the buyer has already decided from the ad and pretty much just walk in, pay and leave.

    He's presumably selling too many cars to hide his address (if it is his address). Plus if you turn up at his door with a problem the response is fairly predictable:

    First, it'll be "Sorry, it wasn't my car, I didn't know anything about"
    If that doesn't work it'll either turn into threats of violence or calling the police. Remember that although you know where he lives, he knows where you live too.

    Plus with a "private sale", or the faults are hidden for long enough, you might never even take it back.
    • efunc
    • By efunc 6th Apr 18, 6:12 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    Why "points to 2 owners"? Surely if you've looked at the car you've checked the V5 for owner list? Contact the last one to ask about the car
    Originally posted by jimjames
    Because when you're checking out someone's story it's common practice to use different sets of data to corroborate things. ie if the mileage history doesn't follow the Service history or if the service history doesn't reflect the v5 info, etc, then you know things are being doctored. When things start matching up you can instead focus on the parts of the story which are obviously rubbish, and confront them accordingly.
    • konark
    • By konark 7th Apr 18, 2:49 AM
    • 1,079 Posts
    • 820 Thanks
    konark
    Cover story typical of scummy driveway trader.

    Advert has trader written all over it.

    Phone number linked to numerous car sales, he probably has other numbers as well. .

    Car will be a trader's mongrel, and if you have any problems this guy will be harder to find than Lord Lucan.

    Why are you even thinking about buying a car from a total liar and scumbag?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 7th Apr 18, 7:40 AM
    • 13,627 Posts
    • 8,642 Thanks
    arcon5
    What s reading fault codes gonna tell you on a 10 year old car? It'll probably have a load of historic codes still stored in there and some irrelevant ones.
    • RegWorts
    • By RegWorts 7th Apr 18, 1:15 PM
    • 7,664 Posts
    • 1,933 Thanks
    RegWorts
    Easy...walk away and report the details to the Trading Standards

    This is worth reading about a similar liar

    http://www.tradingstandardswales.org.uk/prosecutions/2016MarTorfaen.cfm
    • Nodding Donkey
    • By Nodding Donkey 7th Apr 18, 6:21 PM
    • 2,605 Posts
    • 2,205 Thanks
    Nodding Donkey
    Yep, just saw those myself too and was dumbfounded! I'm left wondering if I should proceed. It is the car I'm after, at a price I'm happy about. But I can't go ahead knowing what I know without letting him know he's rumbled. He's BS'ing me telling me that he's just spoken to his friend and has accepted my offer...
    Originally posted by efunc
    Really?

    After all that has been said on this thread?

    There's none so blind as them who can't see.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 7th Apr 18, 6:45 PM
    • 6,032 Posts
    • 4,090 Thanks
    fwor
    The suggestion that he has no idea about a vehicle-specific diagnostic tool (in this case VCDS) is ridiculous, given his history.

    I would not be at all surprised if you find that two wires have been disconnected on the back of the OBD port.
    • efunc
    • By efunc 7th Apr 18, 10:47 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    The suggestion that he has no idea about a vehicle-specific diagnostic tool (in this case VCDS) is ridiculous, given his history.

    I would not be at all surprised if you find that two wires have been disconnected on the back of the OBD port.
    Originally posted by fwor
    No, not so. I just went back and ran VCDS again, this time successfully. He watched nervously as I ran through a whole suite of tests, concerned that I might be hacking into his car or something. I read of a whole bunch of logged errors knowing full well they were minor things and historic, but it shows that he did not have the knowledge to do this himself and then clear the faults. I cleared all the faults myself so that I could run clean diagnostics. Either he's a superb actor or he's genuinely unable stay on top of his scam.

    I also got hold of the V5 and service book and took a picture of them. That freaked him out a bit. But at least I have the name of the named keeper now, so hopefully I can get more details out of him if I can track him down. Audi couldn't supply me the service history based on the current Reg number for some reason, so at least I now have the full VIN so will be able to uncover the full history.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 7th Apr 18, 10:54 PM
    • 6,035 Posts
    • 2,744 Thanks
    LeeUK
    He might not have a forecourt somewhere stocked with cars for sale, but he certainly is a buyer and seller of cars.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 8th Apr 18, 7:16 AM
    • 7,870 Posts
    • 7,242 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Has it had a different plate on it?
    • loskie
    • By loskie 8th Apr 18, 8:51 AM
    • 1,352 Posts
    • 790 Thanks
    loskie
    I think when you look at the history on Cazana and it says "something has occurred in this timeline" that may well be a no plate change
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 8th Apr 18, 9:15 AM
    • 11,429 Posts
    • 6,540 Thanks
    DUTR
    I think when you look at the history on Cazana and it says "something has occurred in this timeline" that may well be a no plate change
    Originally posted by loskie
    It's a change of ownership.
    • efunc
    • By efunc 8th Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    Has it had a different plate on it?
    Originally posted by Herzlos
    I suspect it has, which is why I've scanned the chassis number from the ECU. TTS often have private plates slapped on. When I called Audi last week to verify the service record they didn't recognise the current plate (which is curious because it would have been the original registration), however I will check again and quote the VIN this time.
    • efunc
    • By efunc 8th Apr 18, 6:22 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    Anyone able to comment on the following: I took a look at the V5C and managed to get a photo of the second page with the vehicle and Registered keeper details. But I only managed to glance at the first page with the No of Former Keepers.

    What I recall however is that the name and address on page 1, section 1 was different to the name and address of page 2, section 5, both of which are supposed to be the Registered keeper and ought to be the same, right? In what circumstances might they be different?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 8th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 17,314 Posts
    • 10,458 Thanks
    motorguy
    Anyone able to comment on the following: I took a look at the V5C and managed to get a photo of the second page with the vehicle and Registered keeper details. But I only managed to glance at the first page with the No of Former Keepers.

    What I recall however is that the name and address on page 1, section 1 was different to the name and address of page 2, section 5, both of which are supposed to be the Registered keeper and ought to be the same, right? In what circumstances might they be different?
    Originally posted by efunc
    Were the two pages attached by the perforations?
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • efunc
    • By efunc 8th Apr 18, 7:30 PM
    • 386 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    efunc
    Were the two pages attached by the perforations?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Just one sheet judging from my photo. Page 1 on one side with sections 1, 2 and 3, and then on the flip side page 2 with sections 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. The second sheet with page 3 and 4 was not attached by the perforations as I recall, but was present as a second detached sheet. I could upload the photo, but would want to blank out the keeper's name/address obviously.
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