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  • FIRST POST
    • YellowNinja
    • By YellowNinja 16th Mar 18, 5:39 PM
    • 3Posts
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    YellowNinja
    Contractor Asking For UTR - Loosing The Plot!
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 18, 5:39 PM
    Contractor Asking For UTR - Loosing The Plot! 16th Mar 18 at 5:39 PM
    hi,

    Used to work for Sainsbury's but I recently starting working for myself as a courier driver (was promised good pay but that turned out to be total B.S) now I did some work for a few large companies such as Amazon through other contracting companies which where all ok-ish, and a few other independents.

    Anyway, I'm having an issue with one company that constantly keeps changing its mind on pay day because of some crap reason or the other. I want to leave this trade and go back to being employed, as its very cowboyish, however this firm is not paying me my money and every week comes up with another excuse as to why. They owe me in excess of 1,500 for 13 days / 120 hours work and keep stalling payment.

    Few weeks ago it was the back of my drivers license, then it was my passport, then it was needing two proof of address as one wasn't enough, then it was NI number paperwork and this week they've said they still can't pay me because now they need a UTR number and its becoming absurd!

    I asked a friend who's wife is an accountant and she told me that unless they are CIS / Construction Trade registered you are not suppose to give out your UTR to anyone period!

    I'm starting to get a little suspicious, what do you guys think?

    Worst yet, that will now mean having to register ASAP for self assessment and wait months to get a UTR! GRGH!

    Any suggestions?
Page 1
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 16th Mar 18, 6:25 PM
    • 8,042 Posts
    • 8,884 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 18, 6:25 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Mar 18, 6:25 PM
    They're obviously taking the proverbial.

    Hand deliver a letter saying that unless they pay all outstanding wages within seven days you will take them to court.

    (and don't do any more work for them)
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 16th Mar 18, 7:06 PM
    • 6,122 Posts
    • 29,493 Thanks
    bugslet
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 18, 7:06 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Mar 18, 7:06 PM
    Not having ever been in your situation and still employing my van drivers on PAYE, I'm a bit hazy, but as a contractor (Ltd company), if someone doesn't cough up, I can put a lien on their goods as per my Ts and Vs of carriage. Would you be able to do something similar?

    A lien in this instance is when you keep hold of the customers goods until they pay.
    • anamenottaken
    • By anamenottaken 16th Mar 18, 7:43 PM
    • 4,146 Posts
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    anamenottaken
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 18, 7:43 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Mar 18, 7:43 PM
    So you have been self-employed for some weeks at least but not yet registered as such with HMRC. Best to do so now and, yes, I know that one doesn't have to do so immediately you start but do it now.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 17th Mar 18, 10:53 AM
    • 4,270 Posts
    • 4,675 Thanks
    robatwork
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:53 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:53 AM
    Before you give it to them, ask them how they plan to store it, who is their Data Protection Officer, and how this fits in with data compliance under GDPR.
    • anamenottaken
    • By anamenottaken 17th Mar 18, 10:59 AM
    • 4,146 Posts
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    anamenottaken
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:59 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 18, 10:59 AM
    Before you give it to them, ask them how they plan to store it, who is their Data Protection Officer, and how this fits in with data compliance under GDPR.
    Originally posted by robatwork

    Whatever the UK rules turn out to be in May.
    • YellowNinja
    • By YellowNinja 18th Mar 18, 4:45 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    YellowNinja
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 18, 4:45 AM
    • #7
    • 18th Mar 18, 4:45 AM
    Hey thanks for the replies.

    I was just wondering if its true that a UTR can only be asked for by CIS registered firms in the construction trade?

    Has anyone here been asked for an UTR whilst self employed outside of CIS firms? The company is saying they will pay me but only 50% of the total 'for tax reasons' unless I give them my UTR which I refuse to accept!

    So now I have to wait until HMRC sorts out UTR a for me. This will take months! I'm well annoyed!!! The van lease, insurance and diesel have burnt a hole in my pocket.

    Gutted.
    Last edited by YellowNinja; 18-03-2018 at 4:49 AM.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 18th Mar 18, 11:30 AM
    • 2,555 Posts
    • 1,226 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 18, 11:30 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Mar 18, 11:30 AM
    No, a UTR is strictly nothing to do with being self employed.

    It stands for Unique Taxpayer Reference and is the reference number people use to file their self assessment tax returns under (so is used by self employed people but lots of people who aren't self employed have to file self assessment tax returns will have a UTR).

    You can register as self employed today. Doubt very much it will take "months" for you to get your UTR

    https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return/register-if-youre-self-employed
    Last edited by Dazed and confused; 18-03-2018 at 11:38 AM.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 18th Mar 18, 11:53 AM
    • 2,487 Posts
    • 2,407 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 18, 11:53 AM
    • #9
    • 18th Mar 18, 11:53 AM
    Whatever the UK rules turn out to be in May.
    Originally posted by anamenottaken
    The GDPR will come into force before the UK leaves the European Union, so it will become part of UK law then, and will automatically be incorporated into UK law when the UK leaves.
    • anamenottaken
    • By anamenottaken 18th Mar 18, 4:19 PM
    • 4,146 Posts
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    anamenottaken
    The GDPR will come into force before the UK leaves the European Union, so it will become part of UK law then, and will automatically be incorporated into UK law when the UK leaves.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    But the GDPR legislation has not yet finished its course through Parliament and isn't law yet. Whatever it turns out to be, it won't be in force until 25 May 2018 and so asking an organisation now "how this fits in with data compliance under GDPR" can only receive, at best, an educated guess as a theoretical answer, can't it?
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 18th Mar 18, 5:16 PM
    • 4,270 Posts
    • 4,675 Thanks
    robatwork
    But the GDPR legislation has not yet finished its course through Parliament and isn't law yet. Whatever it turns out to be, it won't be in force until 25 May 2018 and so asking an organisation now "how this fits in with data compliance under GDPR" can only receive, at best, an educated guess as a theoretical answer, can't it?
    Originally posted by anamenottaken
    A reasonable sized organisation that doesn't have a data policy in place by now is dangerously irresponsible.

    All UK guidance says this will be UK law in future no matter Brexit.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 18th Mar 18, 5:36 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    No, a UTR is strictly nothing to do with being self employed.

    It stands for Unique Taxpayer Reference and is the reference number people use to file their self assessment tax returns under (so is used by self employed people but lots of people who aren't self employed have to file self assessment tax returns will have a UTR).

    You can register as self employed today. Doubt very much it will take "months" for you to get your UTR

    https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return/register-if-youre-self-employed
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    Sorry but who else other than self employed people would have a UTR.

    Im self employed and im always asked my UTR when working as such..and when PAYE asked for NI number.

    UTR is strictly nothing to do with being self employed....really.?
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 18th Mar 18, 5:40 PM
    • 2,033 Posts
    • 2,775 Thanks
    comeandgo
    I'm not self employed and I have a UTR number, most of our employees have UTR numbers, it's nothing to do with being self employed.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • 20,113 Posts
    • 15,833 Thanks
    agrinnall

    UTR is strictly nothing to do with being self employed....really.?
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2

    Yes, really. It's issued to anyone who has registered for SA or set up a Limited Company, which is a considerably wider pool than just the self employed.



    https://www.gov.uk/find-lost-utr-number
    • YellowNinja
    • By YellowNinja 17th Apr 18, 7:21 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    YellowNinja
    Just a follow up, just got off the phone to them for the 1000th time this month and they are absolutely refusing to pay me my money.

    The are saying they will hold back all payment until I give them my UTR which they know I don't have yet. Out of general principle I will not give it to them, as no law requires me to register for self assessment for an X amount of time. And even if I did, no law requires me to give it to them!

    Conveniently, they failed to ask for any of this before actually carrying out any work, but once I did, 'sorry, we can't pay you.' This is beyond unethical and is obviously intentional. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?

    If the law does not require it how can they demand it and withhold my money? This is total bull! Better yet, do THEY have any legal standing doing what they are doing? This is the 1,500 question. I spoke to all three senior managers who are telling me they can hold back my money by law. What is this nonsense?!

    I've talked to so many drivers and none of them have ever heard of anything like this! I've just returned my van back to the rental firm a few days ago anyway, as I've had it.

    A friend told me he spends half his working life chasing up unpaid invoices! Forget this! I'm going to renew my S.I.A license and go back on the payroll WHAT THE HELL!
    Last edited by YellowNinja; 17-04-2018 at 7:44 AM.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 17th Apr 18, 8:10 AM
    • 31,599 Posts
    • 19,940 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Why not just give them the UTR number or you do a letter before action and go to small claims court.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 17th Apr 18, 8:40 AM
    • 20,113 Posts
    • 15,833 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Or make up a UTR, if they don't really need it then they won't have any way to confirm whether it's correct or not. Although I suspect it may only be an excuse to continue to delay payment, and it might be better to go directly to small claims now.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 17th Apr 18, 10:54 AM
    • 2,487 Posts
    • 2,407 Thanks
    steampowered
    Just issue a small claim against them through the moneyclaimonline service.

    Issue a letter before action now giving them 14 days to pay, then issue the court proceedings when the 14 days are up.
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 17th Apr 18, 7:35 PM
    • 5,594 Posts
    • 4,916 Thanks
    mgdavid
    Sorry but who else other than self employed people would have a UTR.

    Im self employed and im always asked my UTR when working as such..and when PAYE asked for NI number.

    UTR is strictly nothing to do with being self employed....really.?
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    I've never been self-employed yet I have a UTR.
    All a UTR does is allow one to do annual tax returns online.
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
    • Derwent
    • By Derwent 18th Apr 18, 11:56 AM
    • 557 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    Derwent
    They are absolutely correct to ask for your UTR number. This is to indemnify themselves in case you do not declare your earnings and pay over any tax due to HMRC. Companies engaging freelance contractors must demonstrate that they have taken all reasonable steps to make sure that the contractor is registered properly otherwise they can become liable for any unpaid tax by the contractor. If you are properly registered you can get a UTR from HMRC in a couple of days.
    Its amazing how these banks can't even do simple calculations correctly..............
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