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  • FIRST POST
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 12th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    • 38Posts
    • 30Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    NTD from LPS (Local Parking Security Ltd)
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 18, 2:34 PM
    NTD from LPS (Local Parking Security Ltd) 12th Mar 18 at 2:34 PM
    Driver suffered a flat tyre and had to abandon the car in the closest car park. It was dark and the driver was not aware that the car park was a Pay and Display operation - in fact it was a pub car park, so the driver assumed it was free.

    Upon arranging for a recovery truck and returning to the vehicle, driver surprised to see NTD on windscreen.

    The company is LPS (Local Parking Security Ltd). Looked them up and they're BPA members, so hopefully this can be beaten at POPLA.

    The driver has taken photos of the signage, and of the flat tyre. Keeper is all ready to sit this out until day 25/26 and submit the blue template as per the newbies thread.

    However, wondering whether there's something more here.

    1) The NTD is headed "EXCESS CHARGE NOTICE". Isn't this only permitted by local authorities and police? Can this be used against them?
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 18, 2:36 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, COM, Smart,s and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    • 36,621 Posts
    • 82,942 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    Driver suffered a flat tyre and had to abandon the car in the closest car park. It was dark and the driver was not aware that the car park was a Pay and Display operation - in fact it was a pub car park, so the driver assumed it was free.

    Upon arranging for a recovery truck and returning to the vehicle, driver surprised to see NTD on windscreen.

    The company is LPS (Local Parking Security Ltd). Looked them up and they're BPA members, so hopefully this can be beaten at POPLA.

    The driver has taken photos of the signage, and of the flat tyre. Keeper is all ready to sit this out until day 25/26 and submit the blue template as per the newbies thread.

    However, wondering whether there's something more here.

    1) The NTD is headed "EXCESS CHARGE NOTICE". Isn't this only permitted by local authorities and police? Can this be used against them?
    Originally posted by Weasel_Watcher
    That's good. Did the keeper also take pictures of the entrance and signage during roughly the same conditions as the alleged event?

    No, I don't think so.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 12th Mar 18, 4:42 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:42 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:42 PM
    Fair point no. The keeper will return to that car park tonight and take photos of the entrance and signage under the same conditions that would have been experienced by the driver.

    However that still lets them off the hook with their big capitalised "EXCESS CHARGE NOTICE". They've not got any authority to issue such a notice. This is merely a parking charge notice; a speculative invoice for an alleged contract that the keeper intends to dispute.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
    • 36,621 Posts
    • 82,942 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 18, 4:44 PM
    Don't use flash for the images.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 12th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 18, 5:57 PM
    Don't use flash for the images.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Won't use a flash, though the driver left it there on a Saturday night at about 3:15am, so I think it's unlikely to be exatly the same conditions(!)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Mar 18, 6:28 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 70,997 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 6:28 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 18, 6:28 PM
    You do need it to be pitch black, though.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    • 7,167 Posts
    • 6,644 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 18, 7:09 PM
    Pick a day when there is no moon... just as it was on your flat tyre day.
    .
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 5th Apr 18, 2:42 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    • #9
    • 5th Apr 18, 2:42 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Apr 18, 2:42 PM
    OK, just to leep things up-to-date, tomorrow is Day 25. Almost ready to post off the blue appeal template.

    Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worrried since the appeal process offers an email address only, rather than an online form, so it won't be possible to prove anything was sent.

    However, searched for other cases from this company and it appears that the NTK is non-POFA compliant, so I'm not sure if it wouldn't be better to receive the NTK than try and cause them to slip up and not send one.

    Regadless of all this, I trust this board's proven record, and unless I hear otherwise, will email the template tomorrow adding nothing mitigating (like flat tyre) since I'm just after the POPLA code.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Apr 18, 2:52 PM
    • 7,167 Posts
    • 6,644 Thanks
    KeithP
    Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worrried since the appeal process offers an email address only, rather than an online form, so it won't be possible to prove anything was sent.
    Originally posted by Weasel_Watcher
    Yes it will.

    Add yourself, or a friend or relative, on the .cc list and you have your proof.
    On the balance of probabilities, it is extremely unlikely to be successfully received by one recipient and not by another.
    .
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 10th Apr 18, 10:52 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    Right, received a reply this morning day 29 from the initial day 25 appeal.
    Dear <Keeper Name>,

    Parking charge notice: <PCN Number>


    Thank you for your email dated: 6th April 2018

    We advise that The Blackweir car park operates as a pay and display system for all car park users, this is clearly stated on all signs located throughout the car park.

    Please find attached our photographic evidence as requested. Please note all our photos are time and date stamped.

    The registered keeper is liable for payment of the unpaid Parking Charge Notice if they are unable to provide us with the driver's details at the time the Parking Charge Notice was issued.

    Please refer to Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule four, for further details on this.

    If you are able to provide us with the drivers (sic) details at the time the Parking Charge Notice was issued we will contact them directly. If you cannot provide us with these details we will have no option but to pursue the claim against you as the registered keeper.

    Yours Sincerely

    Appeals Department
    Local Parking Security Ltd.
    PO Box 6321
    Warwick
    Warwickshire
    CV34 9QB
    Email was just like that with apostrophe error on "drivers" in the second instance. Not very professional. Attached to the email are several photographs of the car, timestamped, with a photograph of the entry sign.


    No POPLA code has been provided, and so far there has been no notice to keeper.

    Suppose I should sit it out and wait for the time to send an NTK expires, but I'm concerned that they appear to have rejected the appeal without providing a POPLA code. Should I contact them demanding the code, or let it (hopefully) time out?

    It would be preferable to beat these people at POLPA rather than have to hang around for 6 years.
    Last edited by Weasel_Watcher; 10-04-2018 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Apostrophe displayed skewed
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Apr 18, 10:58 AM
    • 9,203 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    Do not worry too much about PoPLA some weird decisions are being made by these wet behind the ears law graduates who have failed to find proper jobs.

    It is highly likely that, if they were ill-advised enough to take this to court, they would crash and burn.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 10th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    I understand what you're saying, The Deep, but these people are flouting the rules and think they can just act with impunity.

    They're supposed to provide a POLPA code, it's in their interest *not* to provide one, but their own code of practice is supoposed to obligate them, so I don't see why they should get away with this.
    Last edited by Weasel_Watcher; 10-04-2018 at 12:52 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • 7,167 Posts
    • 6,644 Thanks
    KeithP
    You nit pick about a missing apostrophe, yet commit the cardinal sin of telling the world who the driver is.

    I have adjusted this post now that I've seen that you have changed your post.

    Absolutely crazy!
    Last edited by KeithP; 10-04-2018 at 4:57 PM.
    .
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Apr 18, 12:43 PM
    • 2,454 Posts
    • 3,004 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Tell them to provide a POPLA code

    Or email the BPA with your complaint, obv enclosing evidence of the breach.
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 10th Apr 18, 2:59 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    Ok intend to reply to the email as follows;
    (the email doesn't specifically state that it's an appeal rejection, so I guess we need to get that fact straight)

    FAO Appeals Department,

    Parking Charge Notice: <xxx>

    Please confirm whether or not your email received on 10th April 2017 constitutes a rejection of my appeal. If so, please provide me, the keeper, with a POPLA appeal code as your code of practice instructs.

    Sincerely,

    <Keeper name>

    Should I add anything else?
    Last edited by Weasel_Watcher; 10-04-2018 at 3:26 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Apr 18, 3:08 PM
    • 7,167 Posts
    • 6,644 Thanks
    KeithP
    I wouldn't bother replying at all.

    This is a common tactic, to try and get the driver's name, and if you do not respond then an appeal rejection and a PoPLA code will be provided in due course.
    .
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 10th Apr 18, 3:26 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    OK. Thanks Keith.
    Last edited by Weasel_Watcher; 10-04-2018 at 6:23 PM.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 10th Apr 18, 4:03 PM
    • 1,701 Posts
    • 2,299 Thanks
    Castle
    Please confirm whether or not your email received on 10th April 2017 constitutes a rejection of my appeal. If so, please provide me, the keeper, with a POPLA appeal code as your code of practice instructs.
    Originally posted by Weasel_Watcher
    Check your calendar
    • Weasel_Watcher
    • By Weasel_Watcher 10th Apr 18, 4:48 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Weasel_Watcher
    Check your calendar
    Originally posted by Castle
    I'm doing well today aren't I?(!)
    That'll teach me to be an apostrophe pedant.

    Not sent the email. Under Keith's advice, I'm waiting to see if a POPLA code turns up. There's been no NTK anyway so far, so presumably no expiry date. Prefer to stop this at POPLA though if possible. Their past NTK's haven't been POFA compliant, so that looks the most promising.
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