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    • Suprised557722
    • By Suprised557722 5th Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    • 5Posts
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    Suprised557722
    Received PCN, LBC and QDR Solicitors letter
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    Received PCN, LBC and QDR Solicitors letter 5th Mar 18 at 2:15 PM
    Hi,

    Iím hoping someone can help me, I have read the newbies thread and most of the posts on the forums regarding this but Iím unsure on what I should do as:

    As the keeper of a car I received a PCN for it overstaying for an hour in a car park that was free for an hour and then £1 an hour after that.

    All letters were sent to my previous rented address which I moved out of and went travelling before returning this week and moving back to a permanent rented address therefore I received 6 months of post in one go - most post goes to my parents house still so it was just as I bought a car at the previous address that the v5 had that address on.

    Hence I received the PCN (sept 17) a letter before action from CEL (Dec 17) and a QDR solictors letter (Feb 18) all at the same time - am I too late to do any appeals - do I pay QDR as keeper or do I have no choice but to go to court now?

    The original £100 fine is now at £250+

    Also worried that as Iím no longer at the address they are sending letters too that I will miss a court letter - do I need to let someone know my new address?

    Any advice much appreciated - kind regards
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    • 36,652 Posts
    • 83,020 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    Have you updated your V5 and Driving Licence address with the DVLA? That's a real £1000 penalty if you haven't.

    Write to CEL giving them your new address.

    It is not a fine.

    You don't pay anyone anything unless a judge tells you to. QDR are probably acting as debt collectors. You will need to check who it tells you who they want you to pay to confirm this.

    Start reading bargepole's link to court which includes replies to LBCs in the NEWBIES thread.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Suprised557722
    • By Suprised557722 5th Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Suprised557722
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    That!!!8217;s on this weeks to do list as I only moved in this weekend

    !!!8220;Instructed by ZZPS acting on behalf of Civil Enforcement ltd!!!8221;

    !!!8220;QDR a wholly owned subsidiary of Wright Hassall LLP!!!8221;

    Thanks I!!!8217;ll send CEL my new address update DVLA and read up
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    • 7,261 Posts
    • 6,782 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 18, 3:43 PM
    To make your posts more readable, you might want to consider turning off Smart Punctuation on your iphone/ipad.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Mar 18, 5:28 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,980 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:28 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 18, 5:28 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (who take hundreds of these cases to court, and nearly always lose), who have also been reported to the regulatory authority.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Mar 18, 7:16 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:16 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 18, 7:16 PM
    Also worried that as I'm no longer at the address they are sending letters too that I will miss a court letter - do I need to let someone know my new address?
    As above, yes do tell them (CEL and whoever is writing to you) in writing with a free certificate of posting (NOT RECORDED or SPECIAL DELIVERY!), or by email and keep proof of sending, your new address for service.

    At the same time, deny liability because you are aware that CEL do not use the POFA wording and are unable to hold a registered keeper liable, and are discontinuing court claims in their hundreds when keepers defend robustly. Finish by saying if CEL do proceed despite knowing they cannot hold a keeper liable, you will pursue your costs or will file a counter-claim for a breach of the DPA, to force the issue to a hearing where you will then claim full costs on the indemnity basis.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-03-2018 at 11:26 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Suprised557722
    • By Suprised557722 6th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Suprised557722
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 12:51 PM
    Is this ok to send as notification of my new address and denying liability or is it too much at this stage?
    Any advice welcome.

    Dear Sirs,

    I would like to inform you I have just received your letters that had been sent to my previous address and require you to send all future correspondence regarding this matter to my current address:!!!8232;!!!8232; Inserted Here

    I also require you to send me a copy of every letter that was sent to my previous address.

    You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.

    I require you to comply with Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20); Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information.

    As keeper of the vehicle in question I will be denying liability as I am aware that Civil Enforcement Ltd do not use POFA wording and are unable to hold a registered keeper liable.

    If you intend to proceed with this claim despite not being able to hold a keeper liable, I will be perusing my costs and will consider filing a counter-claim for a breach of the DPA, to force the issue to a hearing where i will claim full costs on the indemnity basis.

    Yours faithfully
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Mar 18, 2:39 PM
    • 7,261 Posts
    • 6,782 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:39 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 2:39 PM
    I will be perusing my costs...
    That's not quite right.


    Also, you have made no mention of the October 2017 Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

    In other words, you would perhaps be better off starting with one of the more recent robust responses to a Letter of Claim linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
    Last edited by KeithP; 06-03-2018 at 2:43 PM.
    .
    • Suprised557722
    • By Suprised557722 6th Mar 18, 4:19 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Suprised557722
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:19 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 4:19 PM
    Thanks KeithP i will amend using the Daniel San example
    Does it make a difference that the Letter Before Action from CEL was dated December 2017 and the letter from QDR solicitors was dated February 2018 who are asking me to make payment in full or they may recommend to their client to pass this matter to their litigation department who may look to obtain a CCJ
    Does this mean its gone back a step from the LBA?
    • Suprised557722
    • By Suprised557722 6th Mar 18, 4:22 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Suprised557722
    Also do i send my change of address / denial of liability letter to CEL, QDR or both?

    I feel i am out of my depth in all this slightly
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 11:28 PM
    • 57,564 Posts
    • 71,135 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would send it to both. Yes it's gone back a step but write to them both (email).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Mar 18, 9:53 AM
    • 2,516 Posts
    • 3,081 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You can also use that to your advantage
    Theyve stated a definiitve "we will make a claim" within the LBA, and now theyve gone back on that - this is confusing to a consumer, and is surely just an attempt by them to inflate charges. State that, should they now make a claim, you will raise this failure to meet their obligations under the CPRs to the courts attention.
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