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  • FIRST POST
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 4th Mar 18, 6:02 PM
    • 57Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Skivey
    Refused CCTV footage of myself.
    • #1
    • 4th Mar 18, 6:02 PM
    Refused CCTV footage of myself. 4th Mar 18 at 6:02 PM
    I own a bar and the lady who rents out the flats opposite us have conveniently put up 2 cameras which point directly into my door. I had the police come around to check but she has since said it's for her own property protection.

    I know she watches it religiously, she has access from her home3 miles away. She has reported us for noise a few times, but as she lives 3 miles away we are still baffled. Her residents come to our bar and we are always careful with noise making sure someone is outside keeping noise levels to a minimum. She has previously avoided any meetings made between us and the police.

    We had our first incident in 4 years, someone got into the verbal in the door and ended up getting knocked out at the front door. I was stood right next to the person who threw the punch. We have been given a name but cannot 100% prove who it was as I tended to the guy knocked out and the person who threw the punch ran away.

    I formally requested footage of myself at the door giving a description of myself and the times I wanted. I enclosed 10 pounds. 2 weeks later I have received a letter saying basically "the police aren't pressing charges so you don't need the footage". I didn't even mention the incident in my request for footage.

    I am the chairman for our local pubwatch and therefore an incident in my bar needs to be dealt with appropriately. However I'm not asking for footage of the incident I just want the footage of myself. I'll even be ok if they blurred the faces out.

    As far as I'm aware she has a legal obligation to give me footage of myself as requested within 40 days. I'm unsure where to go from here?

    Any ideas?
Page 1
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 4th Mar 18, 6:05 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Skivey
    • #2
    • 4th Mar 18, 6:05 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Mar 18, 6:05 PM
    She also has no signs up or an address where we can obtain footage. I have my letter to one of her residents who passed it on
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 4th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    • 1,153 Posts
    • 551 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    • #3
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:08 PM
    It!!!8217;s not a consumer issue, why do you want the it?
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 4th Mar 18, 7:10 PM
    • 3,549 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    LilElvis
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:10 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:10 PM
    I own a bar and the lady who rents out the flats opposite us have conveniently put up 2 cameras which point directly into my door. I had the police come around to check but she has since said it's for her own property protection.

    I know she watches it religiously, she has access from her home3 miles away. She has reported us for noise a few times, but as she lives 3 miles away we are still baffled. Her residents come to our bar and we are always careful with noise making sure someone is outside keeping noise levels to a minimum. She has previously avoided any meetings made between us and the police.

    We had our first incident in 4 years, someone got into the verbal in the door and ended up getting knocked out at the front door. I was stood right next to the person who threw the punch. We have been given a name but cannot 100% prove who it was as I tended to the guy knocked out and the person who threw the punch ran away.

    I formally requested footage of myself at the door giving a description of myself and the times I wanted. I enclosed 10 pounds. 2 weeks later I have received a letter saying basically "the police aren't pressing charges so you don't need the footage". I didn't even mention the incident in my request for footage.

    I am the chairman for our local pubwatch and therefore an incident in my bar needs to be dealt with appropriately. However I'm not asking for footage of the incident I just want the footage of myself. I'll even be ok if they blurred the faces out.

    As far as I'm aware she has a legal obligation to give me footage of myself as requested within 40 days. I'm unsure where to go from here?

    Any ideas?
    Originally posted by Skivey
    Installing your own cameras would appear to be a good idea.

    How do you know that her cameras cover your premises?
    • Les79
    • By Les79 4th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Les79
    • #5
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:32 PM
    I formally requested footage of myself at the door giving a description of myself and the times I wanted. I enclosed 10 pounds. 2 weeks later I have received a letter saying basically "the police aren't pressing charges so you don't need the footage". I didn't even mention the incident in my request for footage.

    I am the chairman for our local pubwatch and therefore an incident in my bar needs to be dealt with appropriately. However I'm not asking for footage of the incident I just want the footage of myself. I'll even be ok if they blurred the faces out.
    Originally posted by Skivey
    Maybe there's something I'm missing, but why do you want footage of yourself but not of the incident? AND have the faces of everyone else blurred out?

    Wouldn't you be more concerned about the INCIDENT (faces not blurred), so that you can pass the footage over to the police for possible prosecution?
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 4th Mar 18, 7:34 PM
    • 20,102 Posts
    • 15,823 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:34 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 7:34 PM

    As far as I'm aware she has a legal obligation to give me footage of myself as requested within 40 days.
    Originally posted by Skivey
    This isn't something I've ever heard of, can you tell us which law you think it is that requires footage to be handed over? Your mention of £10 seems to suggest that you have submitted a SAR, but I'm not aware this covers data held by private individuals.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 4th Mar 18, 8:05 PM
    • 8,035 Posts
    • 8,876 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:05 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:05 PM
    CCTV covering public spaces isn't covered by the domestic exemption of the Data Protection Act and has to be notified to the ICO.

    As the data controller for this footage, individuals do have the right to request a copy of it from you under the DPA, if you collect their personal data.
    https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv-on-your-property/

    You need to request from the neighbour why she has failed to comply with the DPA by not providing the information and then you can report it to the ICO.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 4th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    • 5,117 Posts
    • 8,320 Thanks
    Gavin83
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    This isn't something I've ever heard of, can you tell us which law you think it is that requires footage to be handed over? Your mention of £10 seems to suggest that you have submitted a SAR, but I'm not aware this covers data held by private individuals.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Well considering she’s running a business it’s some debate if she’d be subject to SAR. However, there’s certainly no requirement for her to keep the footage so all she has to say is she’s deleted it and there’s little you can do.

    I too am curious what good a video that doesn’t identify anyone else is to you. Blurring out the faces wouldn’t be sufficient, you won’t be allowed to identify anyone from the video so they’d likely cover anyone else with black rectangles.

    What did she say when the police requested the video from her as evidence?

    On top of this I think you’re taking the mick a bit. When you feel it might be an issue for your business you’re all over her, even involving the police. As soon as you feel it’s beneficial for your business you suddenly see it as ok and once again look into how you can involve the law. Maybe if you’d been more sympathetic in the first place she’d be more cooperative now.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 4th Mar 18, 8:34 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:34 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 8:34 PM
    This isn't something I've ever heard of, can you tell us which law you think it is that requires footage to be handed over? Your mention of £10 seems to suggest that you have submitted a SAR, but I'm not aware this covers data held by private individuals.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Theres a domestic purposes exemption but that won't apply if the cctv captures anything beyond the boundary of her own property.

    OP the regulator for this is the ICO. Make a complaint with them.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • montyrebel
    • By montyrebel 4th Mar 18, 8:36 PM
    • 569 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    montyrebel
    you own a bar that doesn't have cameras? well that sounds like a place I wouldn't give my business to
    mortui non mordent
    • Svein Forkbeard
    • By Svein Forkbeard 4th Mar 18, 8:57 PM
    • 252 Posts
    • 721 Thanks
    Svein Forkbeard
    you own a bar that doesn't have cameras? well that sounds like a place I wouldn't give my business to
    Originally posted by montyrebel
    Why ?
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 4th Mar 18, 9:13 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Why ?
    Originally posted by Svein Forkbeard
    Probably because a few years back, the licensing board was treating it as a blanket requirement to premises applying for a licence (that they must have cctv installed).

    However thats been changed and now it should be only "problem" pubs who have this as a condition of their licence. So contrary to what the poster said, the fact OP's pub isn't required to have CCTV indicates its the nice sort of pub and not the sort you're likely to leave needing stitches.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 4th Mar 18, 10:09 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Skivey
    My premises does have cctv however on viewing it has malfunctioned. I was sat with Then police as we were going through it and it's as if a spider walked through it for approx 20 minutes during incident.

    Bizarre I know but that's how it looks
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 4th Mar 18, 11:35 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Skivey
    She isn't a business it's residential. She's pointing onto a public pathway. She doesn't live there.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 4th Mar 18, 11:40 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Les79
    My premises does have cctv however on viewing it has malfunctioned. I was sat with Then police as we were going through it and it's as if a spider walked through it for approx 20 minutes during incident.

    Bizarre I know but that's how it looks
    Originally posted by Skivey
    This just seems a bit surreal to be honest.

    - Your CCTV has malfunctioned during the time in which the incident happened.

    - You only want CCTV footage of yourself, and not of the incident, from the lady.

    What's the reasoning behind all of that?

    I think there's currently a slim chance that you've had some involvement in the incident and you want to manipulate the evidence to paint you in a good light. So you corrupt your own CCTV data and request a specific date/time from the lady "and the times I wanted" which shows you outside the pub with a few blurred faces and no idea what is going on. The lady has declined, as the police are not prosecuting against anyone, but you have gone all anal potentially because a third party is piling the pressure on you (maybe even the victim?).

    Forgive me for being so cynical, but maybe some clarity would help your situation... The bottom line is that you should be providing CCTV footage to the POLICE to incriminate the person who punched the other person (or just leave the victim to gather their own evidence), it is as simple as that. And in fairness but if this is your "first incident in 4 years" then, aside from any action the Police take, it may not "need to be dealt with appropriately" by you! Just a drunken yob who has crossed the line, by all means try and get them done but if your rate is 1 incident every 4 years then you don't need to worry unduly about it (but get rid of the "spiders" because that would help). I've been on nights out around here and there are so many people who carry knives and who go looking for a fight, the rate round here is maybe 1 in 3 nights out? That being said, I'd be hopeful that the venue had CCTV and I would be absolutely fuming if you came out with the "spider" excuse had I been injured at your bar. I'd be livid with you.

    Oh and final point.... We have a lot of CCTV cameras in the UK. If the Police were arsed, they could very easily check council-owned CCTV around the exact time of the incident and based on the direction that the person ran away. It is theoretically not rocket science, and something which can be investigated...
    Last edited by Les79; 05-03-2018 at 12:20 AM.
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 5th Mar 18, 12:37 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Skivey
    I'm not legally allowed to ask for general cctv.. She wouldn't be able to provide it as it's a breach of data protection laws.

    Yes my cctv malfunctioned mich to the annoyance of me and the police who also came to view it, bit it's one of those things. Isn't the first time it's happened things are in place to get a new system already. I'm not classed as a high risk entertainment venue so have never needed to use my cctv to get footage before.

    I know she wouldn't give me footage blurred out, however law states under ico that she could, for me it's more the getting footage of the incident it's me actually finding out that she does spy on me. (She told my neighbour about the incident before I did)

    Most of your next statement is very slanderous. I don't even need to give you the satisfaction of a reply on that.

    You're right, there is more here than meets the eye. We have been harassed by said neighbour for over 2 years now and it's starting to get frustrating. 12 months ago she put up cctv that goes direct into our door, and floodlights that shine directly into our window. We currently have a lawyer who is dealing with this case.

    I didn't come here to be fired upon I merely asked advice on my stance when a residential neighbour who is purposely filming us, no signs saying cctv in operation, not registered with ico refuses to give me footage even though I've asked. The question was answered above and with great thanks. I'll be contacting the ico in due course.

    Kind regards

    Matt
    • Skivey
    • By Skivey 5th Mar 18, 12:39 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Skivey
    I will let you know what the ico say
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 5th Mar 18, 7:59 AM
    • 1,338 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    If you have a lawyer why not just ask them?
    • ssparks2003
    • By ssparks2003 5th Mar 18, 8:24 AM
    • 349 Posts
    • 465 Thanks
    ssparks2003
    If there was an incident that the police are investigating then surely they could obtain it if required. But as you note that the police are not investigating then it's not needed and you don't get to "deal with it appropriately"
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 5th Mar 18, 8:54 AM
    • 19,366 Posts
    • 44,885 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Maybe there's something I'm missing, but why do you want footage of yourself but not of the incident? AND have the faces of everyone else blurred out?

    Wouldn't you be more concerned about the INCIDENT (faces not blurred), so that you can pass the footage over to the police for possible prosecution?
    Originally posted by Les79
    Op isn't entitled to footage of anyone else.

    I'm not understanding why you'd be entitled to the footage.
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel
    Everyone is entitled to footage of themselves, and only themselves.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
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