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  • FIRST POST
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 28th Feb 18, 5:25 PM
    • 12Posts
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    Lee Lucky Nut
    Welcome Finance Underwriters
    • #1
    • 28th Feb 18, 5:25 PM
    Welcome Finance Underwriters 28th Feb 18 at 5:25 PM
    Hello all,
    I am brand new to this forum and looking to see if anyone out there would know who was the 'underwriter' for Welcome Finance Ltd in 1999 ?
    I took out a Hire Purchase agreement which had PPI on there (I still have the paperwork) but it is proving very difficult to find out who was the underwriter at the time.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated !
Page 1
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 28th Feb 18, 6:26 PM
    • 20,466 Posts
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    Moneyineptitude
    • #2
    • 28th Feb 18, 6:26 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Feb 18, 6:26 PM
    Duplicate thread;
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5802505
    • -taff
    • By -taff 28th Feb 18, 9:00 PM
    • 7,420 Posts
    • 5,493 Thanks
    -taff
    • #3
    • 28th Feb 18, 9:00 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Feb 18, 9:00 PM
    You've got a snowballs chance of getting anywhere with this.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 1st Mar 18, 9:53 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    • #4
    • 1st Mar 18, 9:53 AM
    • #4
    • 1st Mar 18, 9:53 AM
    Hi - why do you think there is no chance of getting this ?
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 1st Mar 18, 10:43 AM
    • 3,038 Posts
    • 1,961 Thanks
    TrickyDicky101
    • #5
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:43 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:43 AM
    What use is knowing who the underwriter is?
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 1st Mar 18, 2:06 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    • #6
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:06 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:06 PM
    I was under the impression that I could make a claim against the underwriter of the original Hire Purchase agreement as Welcome Finance were not regulated at that particular time ?
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 1st Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    • #7
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:15 PM
    You've got a snowballs chance of getting anywhere with this.
    Originally posted by -taff
    I don't understand why it should be so difficult if I can locate the underwriter of the agreement ? Surely, if I was mis-sold PPI it shouldn't make a difference who sold it or when it was sold ?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 1st Mar 18, 2:25 PM
    • 93,034 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:25 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 2:25 PM
    The underwriter method only works in a tiny number of cases and only if the commercial agreement and dates all align.

    From my reading here, the underwriters were Aviva. However, they are only liable for the pre-regulation period from June 2003 until January 2005.

    So, with yours being 1999, that is before June 2003 and therefore outside the period that Aviva are liable.

    Surely, if I was mis-sold PPI it shouldn't make a difference who sold it or when it was sold ?
    Insurance was not regulated until January 2005. So, a breach of regulation cannot occur if the regulation didnt exist. However, there was an earlier body which operated a voluntary code and Aviva are responsible for that period. That is June 2003 to Jan 2005. Prior to that there were no regulations. So, no breach of regulations can occur.

    Banks have to go back further because of their regulatory position historically. That is why dates dont matter with them.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 01-03-2018 at 2:28 PM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 1st Mar 18, 3:07 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Lee Lucky Nut
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 3:07 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 3:07 PM
    The underwriter method only works in a tiny number of cases and only if the commercial agreement and dates all align.

    From my reading here, the underwriters were Aviva. However, they are only liable for the pre-regulation period from June 2003 until January 2005.

    So, with yours being 1999, that is before June 2003 and therefore outside the period that Aviva are liable.



    Insurance was not regulated until January 2005. So, a breach of regulation cannot occur if the regulation didnt exist. However, there was an earlier body which operated a voluntary code and Aviva are responsible for that period. That is June 2003 to Jan 2005. Prior to that there were no regulations. So, no breach of regulations can occur.

    Banks have to go back further because of their regulatory position historically. That is why dates dont matter with them.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Thanks for the detailed response, there maybe some discrepancy in the dates mentioned as far as Aviva are concerned.
    I submitted my complaint to Aviva and they acknowledged the fact that they were indeed underwriters to Welcome Finance products but only between 1st June 2000 and 26th February 2003.
    They've led me to believe that had my HP agreement been between those dates then I would have had a strong case because of the original paperwork I still have.
    Surely the underwriter (whoever they are) would at least have an obligation to look at the paperwork and respond given the massive amount of mis-selling that has been discovered across the industry in relation to PPI regardless of rules and regs at that particular time ?
    There's a moral issue here too (not that they could give a monkeys about that) ]but I'd really like to find out who was responsible for underwriting the agreement so I can at least put my case directly to them.
    I'm more than happy to share my progress on here too and at least that way people will know whether or not these loans / cards/ HP agreements etc (of a certain date) with PPI attached can be challenged.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 1st Mar 18, 3:30 PM
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    dunstonh
    Surely the underwriter (whoever they are) would at least have an obligation to look at the paperwork and respond given the massive amount of mis-selling that has been discovered across the industry in relation to PPI regardless of rules and regs at that particular time ?
    No obligation as they are the provider and not the seller. It is only through a quirk of regulation that there is even the potential for a short period prior to regulation.

    If Tesco were promoting Heinz Beans and you got it home and found out it was Nutella and you are allergic to nuts, who would you complain to? You are suggesting that Nutella are responsible for the missale.

    I'm more than happy to share my progress on here too and at least that way people will know whether or not these loans / cards/ HP agreements etc (of a certain date) with PPI attached can be challenged.
    I did a look here and elsewhere and could not find any success prior to GISC membership. So, either there is none, or people are not posting it or google didnt like my search words.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 1st Mar 18, 5:04 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Lee Lucky Nut
    [QUOTE=dunstonh;73957374]No obligation as they are the provider and not the seller. It is only through a quirk of regulation that there is even the potential for a short period prior to regulation.


    Thanks for the information on this it is much appreciated.

    It looks like I've got little to no chance of getting anywhere with anyone on this which makes me even more determined.

    I will endeavour to find out who underwrote the agreement and I'll also be going back to Welcome Finance as it was their sales person who sold the policy and therefore attached the PPI to the HP agreement.

    If you or anyone else has any other suggestions I'd be very interested to hear them. If I manage to find out who the underwriters are I'll post it here !
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 1st Mar 18, 7:12 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    anyone else has any other suggestions
    Originally posted by Lee Lucky Nut
    My only suggestion is that you simply give up. Don't forget that, even if you do find out who the underwriter was, you'd not only have to show them that any PPI you had was mis-sold but also get them to accept liability in the first place.

    Many many before you have posted here "determined" to advance pre-regulation complaints against this lender.

    I defy you to show me one post where anyone has had even a modicum of success.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 8th Mar 18, 11:55 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    My only suggestion is that you simply give up. Don't forget that, even if you do find out who the underwriter was, you'd not only have to show them that any PPI you had was mis-sold but also get them to accept liability in the first place.

    Many many before you have posted here "determined" to advance pre-regulation complaints against this lender.

    I defy you to show me one post where anyone has had even a modicum of success.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude

    Well, I appreciate all advice given here but your suggestion of 'giving up' isn't one I'm going to follow. Finding the underwriter remains my 1st priority, I can handle the issue of liability as and when it arises, if I do get that far and it is rejected there's always the Ombudsman.
    Strange that you would 'defy me' to do anything when all I seek is assistance - never mind, onwards and upwards.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Mar 18, 11:57 AM
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    dunstonh
    if I do get that far and it is rejected there's always the Ombudsman.
    You wont have access to the ombudsman on a pre-regulation case.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 8th Mar 18, 12:38 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    Strange that you would 'defy me' to do anything when all I seek is assistance
    Originally posted by Lee Lucky Nut
    That's the point. We can't offer you any assistance other than to inform you that you are going to find pursuing this a very frustrating experience.

    The Ombudsman is not available to you.

    never mind, onwards and upwards.
    Originally posted by Lee Lucky Nut
    More like knocking your head against a brick wall, I'm afraid..

    More than a week after your initial posting about this, what progress can you so far report?
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 8th Mar 18, 12:52 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    That's the point. We can't offer you any assistance other than to inform you that you are going to find pursuing this a very frustrating experience.

    The Ombudsman is not available to you.


    More like knocking your head against a brick wall, I'm afraid..

    More than a week after your initial posting about this, what progress can you so far report?
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude

    My progess has been slow but that's down to me being away, I continue to chase Welcome and still have a case open with them, I hope to continually pester them on the basis that it was a sales guy in their employment who mis-sold the PPI. I've been to Aviva (and Admiral) who have confirmed they were not underwriters at that time.
    My next stop is Cornhill who I believe is now Allianz and I've found a small snippet on the Internet that might point me in another direction of who the underwriter(s) may have been.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Mar 18, 12:55 PM
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    dunstonh
    I don't see any harm with you carrying on as long as you are aware of the issues and the statistical likelihood. Pre-regulation cases which pre-dates FCA regulation and the GISC (which is where the underwriter gets its liability) and no access to FOS or FSCS means the odds are damned low.

    Just because there is no evidence of anyone getting a payout on a Welcome case at your time doesn't mean it hasn't happened. However, it could be just that there is no success cases. Why would a firm payout on a pre-regulation, pre GISC case where no other regulatory body was involved when they can just say no?

    So, not going to defy you doing it. More a case of making you aware that plenty of others have tried and there has been no documented success.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 8th Mar 18, 1:14 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    I don't see any harm with you carrying on as long as you are aware of the issues and the statistical likelihood. Pre-regulation cases which pre-dates FCA regulation and the GISC (which is where the underwriter gets its liability) and no access to FOS or FSCS means the odds are damned low.

    Just because there is no evidence of anyone getting a payout on a Welcome case at your time doesn't mean it hasn't happened. However, it could be just that there is no success cases. Why would a firm payout on a pre-regulation, pre GISC case where no other regulatory body was involved when they can just say no?

    So, not going to defy you doing it. More a case of making you aware that plenty of others have tried and there has been no documented success.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Thanks - I am under no illusions that this will be quick or easy, nor do I 100% expect to have a successful outcome but I really do intend to ruffle a few feathers along the way, particularly with Welcome Finance !
    • sun73
    • By sun73 8th Mar 18, 10:09 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    sun73
    What is the name of the underwriter on the PPI policy document in 1999?

    I can think of a case where an underwriter has accepted liability for pre reg complaints as a gesture of goodwill, that is Genworth (now Axa). An adjudicator at FOS mentioned it to me last year.

    Why not phone FOS, explain your situation and see what they advise.
    • Lee Lucky Nut
    • By Lee Lucky Nut 9th Mar 18, 9:00 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Lee Lucky Nut
    What is the name of the underwriter on the PPI policy document in 1999?

    I can think of a case where an underwriter has accepted liability for pre reg complaints as a gesture of goodwill, that is Genworth (now Axa). An adjudicator at FOS mentioned it to me last year.

    Why not phone FOS, explain your situation and see what they advise.
    Originally posted by sun73
    Hi - unfortunately there is no mention of the underwriter on my paperwork, hence me asking if anyone knows who they might be !

    I've previously been in touch with the Ombudsman to see if they knew of the underwriter but I drew a blank there too.

    I have received another follow up (letter) from Welcome which says they can't take my claim any further but if I do manage to find out who the underwriter was then they will investigate - strange...
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