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  • FIRST POST
    • DenABac
    • By DenABac 12th Jan 18, 7:27 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    DenABac
    S75 Claim / Paypal charge back
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:27 PM
    S75 Claim / Paypal charge back 12th Jan 18 at 7:27 PM
    Dear all,

    I need help about a S75 claim against Paypal. Not sure this is the right section to post it, really sorry if it is not.

    Over a month ago I sold eGiftCards which I did not need via ebay. The buyer has filled an S75 claim and PayPal has said I'm liable for this. Now the buyer claims that he had not given his authorisation for his credit card to be used.

    Now I wonder - can PayPal push the liability for a S75 claim on to me as a individual (as opposed to a business)?
    What I'm thinking is that, PayPal offers a payment solution, however making sure that the service is not misused is still their liability?

    The S75 claim has been approved by the bank.

    1. I'm thinking that the person is trying to get a free gift card
    2. Even if someone used the persons PayPal account without authorisation I don't see how this would be my problem.

    Do you have any thoughts on this?

    Although the amount is really small, I still want to fight this out. Also I know that the GiftCards have been used. Now I'll wonder if I could take legal action against the person, since this has been really irritating and time consuming.

    Best regards / Have a great weekend
    D
Page 1
    • TheBanker
    • By TheBanker 12th Jan 18, 7:56 PM
    • 618 Posts
    • 1,562 Thanks
    TheBanker
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:56 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:56 PM

    Now I wonder - can PayPal push the liability for a S75 claim on to me as a individual (as opposed to a business)?
    What I'm thinking is that, PayPal offers a payment solution, however making sure that the service is not misused is still their liability?
    Originally posted by DenABac
    I am not a lawyer but I read the PayPal User Agreement and I think the situation is pretty clear:

    5.3 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims. The receipt of a payment into your PayPal Account does not equate to the receipt of cleared funds. A notification that E-money has been sent to you, does not amount to a receipt of E-money in your Account unless you have accepted the payment. You acknowledge and agree that a payment transaction is completed and received by you even if it becomes subject to a Reversal, Chargeback. Claim, Reserve or hold. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any costs that we incur and any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. In addition to any other liability, if there is a Reversal, or if you lose a Chargeback or Claim and you are not entitled to a payment under the Seller Protection Programme, you will owe PayPal an amount equal to the Reversal, Chargeback or Claim and our Fees per Schedule 1 (including a Chargeback Fee if applicable) and PayPal will debit your Balance to recover such an amount. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card company, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback. You can find out more about Chargebacks by reviewing our Chargeback Guide, accessible via the PayPal Security Centre and the section called: !!!8220;Selling Safely!!!8221;. The PayPal Security Centre is accessed via the PayPal website.
    Unfortunately, PayPal seller protection excludes Items equivalent to cash (including, without limitation, stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards).

    So it seems your only recourse is against the buyer.

    The problem here is that the buyer says he did not authorise the payment. If you take court action, how will you prove he did?

    I'm afraid I can't see a good outcome for you here.

    PS - your question might be better answered in the Ebay buying and selling board, further down. Someone there might have been in the same boat before.
    Make 10 a day challenge: Jan-18: 330 / 400
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 12th Jan 18, 8:01 PM
    • 1,512 Posts
    • 853 Thanks
    boo_star
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:01 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 8:01 PM
    1. I'm thinking that the person is trying to get a free gift card
    2. Even if someone used the persons PayPal account without authorisation I don't see how this would be my problem.
    Originally posted by DenABac
    They might be, or someone may have had their card used fraudulently. Selling "electronic" gift cards leaves you wide open to fraudsters. Since they don't need a physical address to send the item to, they won't fall foul of address verification on PayPal's end and it's far easier to cover their tracks. It's just as likely, if not more, that someone has had their card details compromised and they genuinely have nothing to do with this transaction.

    As far as saying it's not your problem, you did sign up to the T&C's and essentially waived your right to buyer protection by selling intangible goods. Telling PayPal that it's their problem, not yours, won't get you anywhere. If they can't recover the funds themselves they'll eventually just sell the account to a DCA and wash their hands of it.

    Although the amount is really small, I still want to fight this out. Also I know that the GiftCards have been used. Now I'll wonder if I could take legal action against the person, since this has been really irritating and time consuming.
    Without some evidence that the buyer and the S75 claimant are one and the same I think court action would be throwing good money after bad. Just my opinion though.
    Last edited by boo_star; 12-01-2018 at 8:13 PM.
    • derps
    • By derps 13th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • 125 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    derps
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    Can you please share the exact language used in the communication you've received from PayPal / the bank? Section 75 has nothing to do with unauthorised transactions and the banks seem to be sticking to the (albeit disputed by armchair commentators) idea that it also doesn't apply with PayPal transactions either, so it's hard to advise you on the circumstances as you've framed them.

    If a chargeback has been raised for unrecognised or unauthorised transaction, your responsibility would be to provide information demonstrating that this is not true, such as proof of delivery to the customer's home. Unfortunately for you, however, the system is skewed in favour of "victims" and if they keep on signing declarations stating that they definitely didn't make the purchase and their bank goes along with it, the chargeback is likely to go in their favour. The best bet is to convince the banks not to pursue it.
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