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  • FIRST POST
    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 12th Jan 18, 2:18 PM
    • 38Posts
    • 9Thanks
    hartynoll
    Gladstones LBC help please!!
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:18 PM
    Gladstones LBC help please!! 12th Jan 18 at 2:18 PM
    Hi Guru's

    First of all, I have read through the Newbie's thread and googled for a few hours but I am not 100% sure what action to take next so please accept my apologies if you feel that you guys are repeating yourselves.

    First of all, I parked on an unfinished housing site in July 2017, along with about 30 other parents who had been asked to attend a meeting for the kick off of the local rugby elite u16s squad.

    When I returned to my car, I along with most of the others, had PCNs from Millennium on our windscreens. I must say, as others have posted, the signage was tiny and I didn't notice them when driving in.

    I sent them an email on 6th July 2017, which I copied from the NEWBIE thread stating that the signs did not adhere to the large lettering etc etc and requested a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    ON 21 July, I had a response from MPG and suprise surprise, I did not get the charge cancelled but neither did I get a POPLA code. They referred me to the IAS, which I can see from here is a waste of time.

    I subsequently had 3 DRP letters, followed by 2 Zenith letters which I have ignored but kept.

    This morning I had a letter from Gladstones Solicitors with a 'Letter Before Claim' heading. Please note that the reference begins with '1' and it asks me to pay the solicitors directly, rather than a DRP.

    I understand that I must now respond to the solicitors, but the examples I have found on here have suggested that MPG or Gladstones provide me with all evidence etc, which they kind of already did in the response to my initial letter.

    Also, there was some regulation change in October 2017, but as the incident was prior to that, should the regulation still need to be followed?

    Thank you for any advice guys, these things really get me down and affect me.

    I also find it strange that the solicitors have only asked for the same amount 160 as MPG did, with none of the usual admin fee or markup that I would have expected
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • 9,997 Posts
    • 9,817 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    You say that there were about 30 of you parked there. Are you all in touch with each other? How many of you have received this Glsdstone nonsense? Does the letter comply with the revised CPRs?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 12th Jan 18, 2:39 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:39 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:39 PM
    Hi Deep

    I'm afraid I only know 1 of them and I believe they paid up right away - fools!

    I'll have to get back to you on the revised CPRs after researching them
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Jan 18, 3:03 PM
    • 19,244 Posts
    • 24,457 Thanks
    Redx
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:03 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:03 PM
    any LBC dated on or AFTER 01 oct 21017 has to follow those new protocols, even if it related to an incident 5 years ago

    you need to compose an LBC REBUTTAL , but should expect to receive an MCOL from Northampton CCBC in any case, probably later this month

    if Millenium were IPC members on the date of this incident , then asking for a popla code was a waste of time as it was never an option, and isnt now either
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 20th Jan 18, 7:58 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    • #5
    • 20th Jan 18, 7:58 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Jan 18, 7:58 PM
    Hi All

    How does the below sound as a response to the LBC:

    "Dear sirs,
    any debt to your client is denied as no offer of a contract was ever made to the driver of the vehicle at the time so it stands there was none to breach.

    As the pair of bandits Will and John at the IPC claim they have personally vetted all of the signage at the site then you will have no need to inform your client that they are clearly in breach of the ATA CoP on this as they will be aware of that already.

    Your client will also be aware that adding unspecified additional charges to the alleged debt is unlawful under both consumer and contract law and Civil Procedure Rules so they wont need telling to explain how they arrived at the figure of 150.

    Your client will also know that there is no keeper liability in this matter and I put it to strict proof they show as to who was the driver at the time.

    A stupid response citing Elliott v Loake or CPS v AJH films will cut no ice, we all know what judges say about that particular confection.

    Unless you WANT your client to lose money pursuing this matter you should advise them to reconsider engaging your services to further their claim as it stands no chance of success and will only end up as another heroic failure for Gladstones solicitors on the Parking Prankster's blog."
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Jan 18, 8:15 PM
    • 61,573 Posts
    • 74,440 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 20th Jan 18, 8:15 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Jan 18, 8:15 PM
    It will wind them up and won't stop them. Up to you though.

    Maybe not a wise response because it will be in the bundle that the Judge will read. I know it's tempting to be facetious when litigious companies send utterly baseless and meritless LBCCCs (been there done that myself in the past) but it's better to maintain the moral and legal high ground.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 1st Mar 18, 3:18 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    • #7
    • 1st Mar 18, 3:18 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Mar 18, 3:18 PM
    Ok, so I sent off my LBC Rebuttal, and Gladstones have come back with a letter stating that "We believe that our LBC is compliant with the most up to date version of the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Protocol".

    They have then enclosed various documents for me to return asking things like:

    "I was the driver", "I was not the driver", "I agree to pay the debt", etc and give me 30 days to reply or further legal action will be taken.

    I don't want to send all that information to them, why should I?

    What shall I do now please?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    • 9,238 Posts
    • 9,446 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 4:15 PM
    What shall I do now please?
    Originally posted by hartynoll
    Wait for the claim form from the County Court Business Centre.

    While waiting, read up on what to do with it when it comes.
    .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 1st Mar 18, 4:20 PM
    • 8,444 Posts
    • 11,112 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 4:20 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 4:20 PM
    They have then enclosed various documents for me to return asking things like:

    "I was the driver", "I was not the driver", "I agree to pay the debt", etc and give me 30 days to reply or further legal action will be taken.

    I don't want to send all that information to them, why should I?

    What shall I do now please?
    Originally posted by hartynoll
    Sounds just like Gladstones, incompetent to the core.

    As said, just wait for a real claim form, you don't
    have to reply to idiotic questions that they are asking
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Mar 18, 8:33 PM
    • 61,573 Posts
    • 74,440 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok, so I sent off my LBC Rebuttal, and Gladstones have come back with a letter stating that "We believe that our LBC is compliant with the most up to date version of the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Protocol".

    They have then enclosed various documents for me to return asking things like:

    "I was the driver", "I was not the driver", "I agree to pay the debt", etc and give me 30 days to reply or further legal action will be taken.

    I don't want to send all that information to them, why should I?

    What shall I do now please?
    Originally posted by hartynoll
    Email them (search the forum for Gladstones email and you will find it).

    State that as they already know, you are the registered keeper, and there is not only no lawful presumption in contract law, that a keeper was driving on a particular date (without evidence) but you have no obligation to say who was, whether or not a keeper knows for certain, that burden of evidence and establishing liability, remains with the Claimant.

    Given the demands and intimidating letters that have arrived in a deluge - including three Debt Recovery Plus, then two Zenith letters (who you have discovered mislead consumers, not least because they are the same company) - this has been a course of conduct demonstrating harassment, akin to the unwarranted demands in Ferguson v British Gas.

    And now Gladstones are sending sheets of paper desperately asking who was driving, when they have no right to demand that name. No registered keeper in their right mind would hand over the driver's details (even if they knew) given this level of intimidation from an industry, their debt collector agents and their 'robo-claim' solicitor whose conflict of interests and connection to the IPC Trade Body and the appeals system itself, was specifically condemned (Gladstones were named and shamed) in Parliament just one month ago. Why would any keeper subject another person to this horrendous sequence of intimidation?

    You should read these links and watch the MPs debate in Parliament, to fire you up:

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2018-02-02b.1149.0

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5787731

    Just 4 weeks ago, the private parking industry's little game and 'outrageous scam' (Hansard), has been finally been condemned unanimously by MPs in Parliament in the private parking Code of Practice Bill debate.

    Watch it, read it, get it!

    Refer to it - they will not like it - and quote the words from the Hansard transcript at Gladstones, in this latest robust email. Say that (should the case go to trial) you will include the transcript of the 2nd February 2018 Parliamentary debate as evidence for the Judge, and will provide evidence of the significant distress caused to the whole family as well as the recipient of these horrendously intrusive and unjustified demands, should this matter proceed to court. Add that you will pursue your costs on the indemnity basis, due to the unreasonable conduct and vexatious claim against a keeper with no proper evidence, no contract, and no similarity with the Beavis case to fall back on to excuse the punitive and predatory 'parking charge', now inflated with imaginary sums (such as fanciful debt collection costs, never actually incurred from the no-collection, no fee firms) that have no basis in law.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 01-03-2018 at 8:39 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 13th Apr 18, 10:40 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    Ok so yesterday I receieved a claim form from County Court Business Centre asking for me to reply either accepting the debt/denying etc. and I intend to fill in the defence part of the form.






    I have just realised that I may have made a mistake initially. I stated that I am the registered keeper of the car, but in fact it is my wife's company car but I am a named driver.
    Will this go against me at any point if it goes to court etc?


    Thanks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,264 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    No, you dont fill in the form. At all. You follow POST TWO of the NEWBIES THREAD exactly, and acknowledge online. You will do nothing with the form at all.

    Not really. but you need to be clear when writing your defence that you are not the Keeper OR the RK. Meaning they have no claim against you.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Apr 18, 12:42 PM
    • 9,238 Posts
    • 9,446 Thanks
    KeithP
    Ok so yesterday I receieved a claim form from County Court Business Centre...
    Originally posted by hartynoll
    Who was that claim form addressed to? You or your wife?

    It is the addressee that is the defendant and the one who must defend the claim.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Apr 18, 12:57 PM
    • 9,997 Posts
    • 9,817 Thanks
    The Deep
    Watch this

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 13th Apr 18, 1:38 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    Who was that claim form addressed to? You or your wife?

    It is the addressee that is the defendant and the one who must defend the claim.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Hi Keith

    It is addresses to me, as on the initial contact I said that I was the registered keeper.

    I'm more than happy to go through it in my name, but then had a horrible thought that it may bite me in the !!! as it is her company car.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • 1,895 Posts
    • 2,566 Thanks
    Castle
    No, you dont fill in the form. At all. You follow POST TWO of the NEWBIES THREAD exactly, and acknowledge online. You will do nothing with the form at all.

    Not really. but you need to be clear when writing your defence that you are not the Keeper OR the RK. Meaning they have no claim against you.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Although given the OP's first post, I wouldn't be so sure
    • hartynoll
    • By hartynoll 13th Apr 18, 2:10 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    hartynoll
    Although given the OP's first post, I wouldn't be so sure
    Originally posted by Castle
    Yeah that's what I've thought. I can't say I'm not the RK when I already have said I was
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Apr 18, 2:33 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,264 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Well you have to state you are not the RK, because if its a company car I bet your wife isnt even the RK, but the lease company that owns the vehicle. You cannot lie to the court.

    WHat you can do is instead correct to state that yuo are neither the keepe rnor the RK, so they dont have a claim against you.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Apr 18, 3:44 PM
    • 1,895 Posts
    • 2,566 Thanks
    Castle
    Well you have to state you are not the RK, because if its a company car I bet your wife isnt even the RK, but the lease company that owns the vehicle. You cannot lie to the court.

    WHat you can do is instead correct to state that yuo are neither the keepe rnor the RK, so they dont have a claim against you.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Actually I was more worried about them working out who the driver was.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 18, 4:11 PM
    • 61,573 Posts
    • 74,440 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hmmm, this is difficult, and 100% should have been appealed by the hirer/lessee, your wife.

    But as your post has been on the forum for 3 months saying who the driver was, and you appealed instead of your wife (who would have had no liability in law, as hirer/lessee who wasn't driving - OUCH that was a big mistake) I would actually defend as driver now.

    See the NEWBIES thread and show us your draft based on another Gladstones defence, your main point will be about the unclear signs (if it was dark, were they unlit?).

    Did you get the AOS done online now and made sure you did NOT start filling in the defence yet by mistake?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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